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Old 09-13-2009, 09:32 AM
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Question about upgrading my AEG's internals.

Hello all,

Ive had my Echo 1 M4 carbine for a while now http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_inf...oducts_id=1975 and I've decided to upgrade my gun with the m120 spring http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_inf...oducts_id=3523

So my question to you all is:
What other internal parts should I upgrade to prepare my gun for an m120 spring?

What i mean is should i get:

- A metal reinforced Shim set? (I'm definitely getting this.)
http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_inf...roducts_id=322

- A reinforced piston head with bearings?

http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_inf...roducts_id=973

- A steel spring guide?
http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_inf...oducts_id=2245

*I'm a noob when it comes to upgrading my gun, and im not really sure what is a necessary and unnecessary upgrade to prepare my gun for the m120 spring that I plan on putting into it. I don't have a whole lot of money so keep in mind I tend to avoid the more expensive things.



Also one quick question
:

I'm also getting a precision inner barrel for my M4.
This one:http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_inf...oducts_id=5843 to be exact.

I'd like to know just how much more accurate precision inner barrels make airsoft guns. I also understand that you can expect a slight increase in fps due to the fact that the barrel is tighter.

THANK YOU SO MUC FOR READING!
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Old 09-13-2009, 10:32 AM
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Based solely on anecdotal evidence, you wouldn't need the shim set or piston head, unless your current ones were messed up. The M120 really isn't too strong of a spring. My friend has one in his otherwise stock Echo1, and it has held up with no problems for at least four games.

For the tightbore, they do provide a noticeable increase in precision. However, they don't always result in an FPS increase. I have one gun that experienced a 5 FPS increase, and another gun that experienced no change.
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Old 09-13-2009, 11:05 AM
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I would agree, with the experience I've had most echo's can handle the 120 with out too much of an upgrade. In fact the only part I saw fail during that time was the gearbox shell it self and it wasn't in the forward region it was the pin reinforcing the switch assembly because of the cold weather.
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Old 09-13-2009, 11:24 AM
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Your callsign is Ghandi but you use guns?! Anyway. When you use a 120 spring, some people have had trouble pulling the spring with an 8.4 battery. You should at least use a 9.6. It won't hurt your gun. Trust me. I've never owned an 8.4 cuz there is no need to. If you wanna be cool like me use a 12v.

Yes go with that barrel. Prom 6.03 barrels rock.
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Old 09-13-2009, 12:02 PM
Ghandi1992 Ghandi1992 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Liberty View Post
When you use a 120 spring, some people have had trouble pulling the spring with an 8.4 battery. You should at least use a 9.6. It won't hurt your gun. Trust me. I've never owned an 8.4 cuz there is no need to. If you wanna be cool like me use a 12v.

Yes go with that barrel. Prom 6.03 barrels rock.
Don't worry, I bought a 9.6v as well as a smart charger a while ago.
Also, I'm glad I've chosen a nice inner barrel. But i dont think my motor could handle a 12v lol. Do you have to have a really expensive motor and gearbox to use a 12v without burning out your motor? I guess what im asking is just look at the link on my gun and tell me if you think my gun could handle a 12v. I personally don't think it could AT ALL.

So you guys don't think I need to upgrade any internals like the piston head or shims? If so that's a relief, of course I would much rather be safe then sorry. If all i have to do is spend 15$ to keep my gun from breaking, I will gladly do it.

As for the inner barrel, I'm most excited about the increased accuracy.

Again guys thank you so much for the suggestion's and advice.

Last edited by Ghandi1992; 09-13-2009 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 09-13-2009, 12:08 PM
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I wouldn't try a 12v. Yes I have upgraded most parts of my gearbox. And from what I've seen echo 1s have pretty solid internals. I think you're fine with just the barrel and spring. Anyone feel free to back that up or correct me please do so. And if you want info on more upgrading hit me up.
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Old 09-13-2009, 12:12 PM
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My reason for wanting to upgrade the bushings, piston heads, shims, and spring guide are because airsoft gi specifically "highly recommends it"
http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_inf...oducts_id=2464

Im afraid of what would happen if i didnt.
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Old 09-13-2009, 01:23 PM
Ghandi1992 Ghandi1992 is offline
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Would i be going overboard if I purchased these items?
- G&G Polycarb Piston Head w/Bearings
http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_inf...oducts_id=4274
- Echo 1 / Modify Version 2 Spring Guide with Bearings
http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_inf...oducts_id=2245
-ECHO 1 Oiless Steel Bushings (Design for Echo1)
http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_inf...roducts_id=167
- Element Standard Ratio Torque Gear Set
http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_inf...oducts_id=4182
-Systema Precision Shim Set
http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_inf...roducts_id=322

According to Airsoft GI these are the highly recommended parts to buy when upgrading to an m120 spring.
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Old 09-13-2009, 01:27 PM
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Are you intending on doing the work yourself? Shimming is kind of an art with AEG's and requires a patient person. Not to say you can't do it, everyone always has their first. So long as the gun you own has metal bushings (which it should) and the gears glide smoothly in the gearbox when rotated without a piston and spring installed, you don't need to do anything else. Reason why they "highly recommend it" is because....well they make money off of it.

Also, if you can, please by local:

www.321airsoft.com
www.airsoftarms.com
www.airsoftsmith.com
www.combatdepot.com

All these shops are located in Ohio, and shipping will take less than 2-3 days.

One more thing, to run a 12v, its very important to run it with some type of protection in your wiring. Protection being a MOSFET system. Without it, you are putting 12 volts of potential across your contacts in the gearbox, which could result in gradual burning of the contacts. This leads to resistance, which leads to heat and loss of current in the gun. The motor is the least of your worries so to speak. MOSFETS run in the 18-120 dollar range and they do an array of different functions from contact protection, to active breaking, to dry-fire protection.
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Last edited by Spectre; 09-13-2009 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 09-13-2009, 02:53 PM
Ghandi1992 Ghandi1992 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectre View Post
Are you intending on doing the work yourself? Shimming is kind of an art with AEG's and requires a patient person. Not to say you can't do it, everyone always has their first. So long as the gun you own has metal bushings (which it should) and the gears glide smoothly in the gearbox when rotated without a piston and spring installed, you don't need to do anything else. Reason why they "highly recommend it" is because....well they make money off of it.

Also, if you can, please by local:

www.321airsoft.com
www.airsoftarms.com
www.airsoftsmith.com
www.combatdepot.com

All these shops are located in Ohio, and shipping will take less than 2-3 days.

One more thing, to run a 12v, its very important to run it with some type of protection in your wiring. Protection being a MOSFET system. Without it, you are putting 12 volts of potential across your contacts in the gearbox, which could result in gradual burning of the contacts. This leads to resistance, which leads to heat and loss of current in the gun. The motor is the least of your worries so to speak. MOSFETS run in the 18-120 dollar range and they do an array of different functions from contact protection, to active breaking, to dry-fire protection.
Yeah I kind of thought it was just a marketing ploy of Airsoft GI's to "highly recommend" these parts.
I wasnt serious about the 12v battery, I like my 9.6v just fine Plus i usually fire in semi auto and am pretty ammo conservative anyways.

So yeah I think all im going to order for internal parts are the inner precision barrel (which im really excited about), and a metal shim set.

Would you recommend that i open my gearbox to see if I have metal bushings, so i can order them?
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Old 09-13-2009, 05:27 PM
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They do make 6mm bearing bushings which can sometimes help you gain a slight ROF increase. You also want heavy silocone lubricant for the gears and thin silicone lubricant for all of your compression parts. Since you will be in there you may as well make sure it is properly shimmed and lubricated.
Since this will be your first time, you will not know if they are done right or not so the best advice I can give is have someone teach you how to shim. Improper shimming will lead to premature wear on gears and your piston. Plus a properly shimmed gearbox just has a smoother sounding pull to it.

And beware, an M120 upgrade, when done right, can sometimes lead to your gun shooting above 400FPS which will put you in semi-only at many games. However with the short M4 length barrel you shouldn't have to worry about that.
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Old 09-13-2009, 07:09 PM
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ive ran a echo 1 mp5 with an m120 in it with no problems at all. Only thing was when the person who upgraded the spring on my gun removed the gearbox all the screws on it were loose. Also the factory shimming was terrible. In my opinion i would have whoever upgrades the gun check the shimming just to be on the safe side.
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Old 09-14-2009, 01:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Liberty View Post
If you wanna be cool like me use a 12v.
Have you burnt out any trigger contacts lately?
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Old 09-14-2009, 06:34 AM
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I wanted to touch on your barrel question that was seemingly missed. If you expect a huge increase in accuracy with a barrel change, you will be disapointed. Accuracy for the most part is all in the Hopup and a good Bucking will make a much bigger change than the barrel. The barrel can give you a small change in accuracy and consistency, but more distance. I have seen changes with an increase of another 25 feet or so when switching to a tightbore barrel and in many cases didn't feel it justified the cost, but I do use them. Hopup buckings I personally have had good luck with are the Systema and the new KWA 2G, which I use in most of my guns these days.
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Old 09-14-2009, 08:55 AM
Ghandi1992 Ghandi1992 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightWolf View Post
I wanted to touch on your barrel question that was seemingly missed. If you expect a huge increase in accuracy with a barrel change, you will be disapointed. Accuracy for the most part is all in the Hopup and a good Bucking will make a much bigger change than the barrel. The barrel can give you a small change in accuracy and consistency, but more distance. I have seen changes with an increase of another 25 feet or so when switching to a tightbore barrel and in many cases didn't feel it justified the cost, but I do use them. Hopup buckings I personally have had good luck with are the Systema and the new KWA 2G, which I use in most of my guns these days.
Im not really expecting a considerable increase in accuracy i guess. The only part I've upgraded from my stock echo 1 m4 so far is the 9.6v battery, and thats not even an upgrade.

So it will be quite a change when i got from a stock gun to this:

-Stystema Presicion Shim set
-Echo 1 spring guide with bearings
-ICS Polycarb piston
-G&G polycarb pistion head with bearings
-Echo 1 oiless steel bushings
-6.03 mm precision inner barrel (370mm)
-G&G m120 spring.

Its SO much money though. I hate spending money.
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Old 09-14-2009, 09:06 AM
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This is what I have in my E1 M4 RIS running a 9.6v batt.

Systema poly carb piston
Systema duracon poly carb piston head w/bearings
Systema metal spring guide w/bearings
Systema shims
Systema bucking
InfectedAirsoft MOSFET w/active breaking
PDI 140% spring

FPS 348 w/KSC .20
Range 160-170 w/KSC .25

I'd have to rechrono for the ROF.
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Last edited by UrbanMarine; 09-14-2009 at 09:16 AM.
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Old 09-14-2009, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_ninja_fish View Post
Have you burnt out any trigger contacts lately?
Yes he has, in fact I just replaced the switch and wiring for him. The switch contact had completely evaporated LOL. Don't use 12v on a stock switch, you will burn it up.
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Old 09-14-2009, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghandi1992 View Post
So it will be quite a change when i got from a stock gun to this:

-Stystema Presicion Shim set
-Echo 1 spring guide with bearings
-ICS Polycarb piston
-G&G polycarb pistion head with bearings
-Echo 1 oiless steel bushings
-6.03 mm precision inner barrel (370mm)
-G&G m120 spring.
Drop the Systema Shim set and go for the G&P set. They are copper and come in their own little baggies separated by thickness. Copper is one of the most widely used wear materials and non magnetic so you don't have to deal with shims sucking to your magnet every 5 seconds.
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Old 09-14-2009, 06:24 PM
Ghandi1992 Ghandi1992 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DemonicUnicorn2 View Post
Drop the Systema Shim set and go for the G&P set. They are copper and come in their own little baggies separated by thickness. Copper is one of the most widely used wear materials and non magnetic so you don't have to deal with shims sucking to your magnet every 5 seconds.
Are you sure i should do that? I will if you say so, i mean i did get G&G'S m120 spring, but its just that the systema shim set has so many high ratings on airsoftgi.com.
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Old 09-14-2009, 07:21 PM
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First of all before i ask you my question's i'll provide you all with a link of my gun again: http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_inf...oducts_id=1975

Now for the questions, if i wanted to upgrade my hop up bucking which bucking would i get if this is the kind of inner barrel i'll be using?

The kind of inner barrel I'll be using: http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_inf...oducts_id=5843

I'm pretty sure your hop-up bucking has to be compatible with your inner barrel. So can you guys recommend any hop-up bucking thats relatively cheap thats under 10$? These are the ones I've looked at so far, but im not sure which one is compatible with my inner barrel:
http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_inf...oducts_id=5294

http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_inf...oducts_id=3715

http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_inf...oducts_id=4693

http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_inf...oducts_id=4694

Like most people, the reason I'm interested in upgrading my hop-up bucking is because its said to greatly increase your accuracy. Should i also upgrade my hop-up too if i was thinking of upgrading the hop-up bucking? If so i found this Echo 1 hop up: http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_inf...oducts_id=4127

And this one: (also echo 1)
http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_inf...oducts_id=4960
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Old 09-14-2009, 08:09 PM
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I'd take things in steps if I was you. Don't do it all at once if you can't afford it. The hop-up unit will be fine for a while. You are not going to get a huge improvement from a new bucking. If your current bucking is still in good condition just save some money for the time being and upgrade it when it wears out.

As far as shims go, they are shims. They are nothing more than thin discs of steel/copper to provide clearance between the gear and the shell or between 2 gears. The name brand really doesn't mean anything at all when it comes to something so simple to mass produce. The same honestly goes for basic bushings. They're such a simple part to mass produce accurately that a name brand means nothing. This is coming from a machinist.
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Old 09-14-2009, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DemonicUnicorn2 View Post
I'd take things in steps if I was you. Don't do it all at once if you can't afford it. The hop-up unit will be fine for a while. You are not going to get a huge improvement from a new bucking. If your current bucking is still in good condition just save some money for the time being and upgrade it when it wears out.

As far as shims go, they are shims. They are nothing more than thin discs of steel/copper to provide clearance between the gear and the shell or between 2 gears. The name brand really doesn't mean anything at all when it comes to something so simple to mass produce. The same honestly goes for basic bushings. They're such a simple part to mass produce accurately that a name brand means nothing. This is coming from a machinist.
Thank you very much kind sir. I will take heed of your advice.
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