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  #51  
Old 06-04-2005, 12:50 PM
CaPtAiN_InSaNo CaPtAiN_InSaNo is offline
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You are most welcome. I figure if i help every one else out in an area where i know alot then maybe if i need help in an area where i'm not so knowledgeable then some one else will help me. Acutally this has just happened. I was looking to get into sniping, but foxtrot and a few others who have tryed it explained it to me. I've decided to get an AK and turn it into an AKM instead of sniping. I would have spent all that money on a rifle and not liked it at all.
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  #52  
Old 06-04-2005, 01:00 PM
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I have some more information to add. This may or may not apply to you depending on the configuration of your battery and the available battery space. Mostly this applys to full stock AR-15's.
Discharging is important, but equalization is even more important to battery performance. However, this can ONLY be done on a battery that is side by side configuration. Equalization trays run about $20~$30. Integy makes some good ones for $19.99.
Basically, since a battery pack is made of of many cells. When charging they are all being charged togater. Now if you recall a matched pack means that all cells are cycled so that they are all at the same capacity(.9v per cell when discharged). As you use them more and more the cells start to take on their own characteristics. Such as one cell will discharge faster or slower than another. When the total voltage of the pack is to low to run a motor not all the cells are dead. Some may have a decent amount of energy in them while others may be completely dead. When you charge the pack again these partailly dead cells are getting overcharged and the completely dead cells are getting undercharged. This causes the pack to wear out quicker and perform much worse. An equalization tray simply discharges each cell individually so that they are all at the same level. That way when you recharge the pack all cells will be charged properly. Again eqalization requires side by side( ||||||, not === configuration). Because side by side allows access to each individual cell without disassembling the pack. Its worth the effort if you want to battery to perform their best. IF you like wroking on AEG's, consider it. You'll have the longest lasting and fastest firing AEG on the field. Can be a great advantage.
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  #53  
Old 06-29-2005, 06:23 AM
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Ok, i got this question, about a really bad batch of batteries... i've accumulated a 600mah and a 1700mah, both 9.6, and sanyo 1.2V cells...

i got them from different places, about a year and a half ago...

ok, so here's whats up

my batteries are ruined... i think, from the Universal Smart Charger, the blue box charger that charges at 2 amps... apparently, that is very high to be charging minis on... and i think i ruined them this way... but i'm not sure if they're ruined, because they DO hold power, just not enough amperage to power anything i want.

an 8.4 600mah i recently bought can power my ICS m4 with a m120 spring. my 9.6 1700mah cannot. i recently got a new charger and gauged the discharge rate of both batteries, everything seems fine... both batteries discharge at 8.4 volts, and around 4.0 amps... actually, the 8.4 is a little lower, around 3.5... everything seems fine, except the 1700 blows air when i try to shoot my gun... basically, the motor will try to run, i hear it click, and then stop.

what is the technical analysis of my batteries... besides that it's F*cked up... is it permanently F*cked up? or can i redo the charge somehow.... so far it seems like it wouldn't, but what would i know, i'm a battery noob. I've cycled that battery on my new TLP charger for about 4 times, discharging, and recharging at 1.7amps, let it cool... i've even tried to do it at .7... nothing seems to go...


OH! and i got this other question, when i discharge my 8.4 600mah battery, it discharges, then i charge, and the TLP LCD screen gives me a capacity readout of 493... as opposed to the 600 i'm supposed to get. What gives?
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  #54  
Old 06-29-2005, 07:26 AM
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It seems to me that the 1700 pack has accumulated to much IR(internal resistance) to handle a 15 amp draw. Now when you tested the reason they both output roughly the same amperages is that the discharger is discharging at a lower amperage. Find something with about 20 amps load, say a 10 light bulb discharger or an eletronic one. Then see what their amperage loads are. Also if you know some one who is into R/C or there is a hobby shop nearby you might be able to have a racer PowerFlex(negative Delta V) your packs. Basically what it does is "burp" the cells. Over time, especially NiCD's, cells with loose their ability to charge from being heated, charged and discharged constantly, also from sitting unused for months at a time(which is acutally the worst). When you flex the cells it will charge then for a second put a high amp descharge current on the cells then continue charing again. This helpds break down the crystal buildup and allows the cells to take a better charge and reduce IR buildup. Now the cells will never get lower IR than they were made with, but you can reduce it back down to close to when they were new. If your cells have just been sitting around for a while (several months) i suggest charge and then discharge(lighbulb, 8 to 10 bulbs simulates the load of an airsoft gun motor) several times. This conditions the cells and they will "wake up". Depending on how old they are they simply might be worn out. Even in R/C though, packs usually last several years.
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  #55  
Old 06-29-2005, 12:11 PM
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mmmmm thanks, i'll just try to cycle them... or find a hobby shop...

i haven't let this battery pack sit for that long... i think i just had a bad charger and charged it wrong... either that or i bought bad batteries... =)
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  #56  
Old 06-29-2005, 09:06 PM
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2 amps shouldn't be to much for a 600 mah pack, a bit high, but it wouldn't damage them like what you are describing, at least not immediately. Remember try to keep the charge time between 1x(.6amp) and 2x(1.2amp) the rated capacity. 3x(1.8amp) is ok but starting to push a bit. I would suggest 1 to 1.5 amps charge rate. I'd also suggest using a discharger with 10 bulbs, it will simulate the draw of a stock motor pretty closely(if your good witha soldering iron you can make one for only a few dollars, the bulbs are $.50 each at most napa stores.
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  #57  
Old 06-30-2005, 03:43 AM
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hahah, thanks, i think i fixed my battery....

i just kept putting it through a charging cycle... it seems to regain some ampage... it actually runs my gun now... still winds slow... but i'll keep cycling it.... is there any harm by cycling it so much? i think it put it through about 12 cycles between today and yesterday...
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  #58  
Old 07-10-2005, 09:21 PM
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Cycling a pack is just like using it in a match, it isn't really any more stressful. Since modern cells will tak 1000 to 2000 charges before they die cycling it a few times to get it running will not hurt it. The pack should last several years. Normally you don't need to cycle the cells more than 1 or 2 times every month. But it won't hurt it. I suggest you do it once a month if you don't use them regularly, that way you are putting minimal use on the cells while keeping them fresh. Its like a car, if you let it sit for several years all the gaskets will dry rot and you then have to rebuild the car or the tires crack and start leaking air. But if you use it occasionally it will keep much better while getting almost no wear.
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  #59  
Old 07-12-2005, 02:44 AM
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how much should i charge a GP 3300 9.6v nimh battery... ?

i just got it and it runs too fast for my motor, i charged it at 3amps... and it's just super super super fast! should charging it lower at 2 slow it down?

Thanks
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  #60  
Old 09-02-2005, 11:23 AM
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Most common charge rates for 3300 GP's are between 5 and 6 amps. I personally prefer 5.5 amps as it seems to give the best combination of power and run time. However a 9.6v(8 cell pack) is too much for a M100/SP100 or equvalent and lower spring. Even a Sp110 or M120 it is a bit much for one reason, pistons. i've done lots of experimenting with durability of pistons being pushed by a 400 fps spring with very high rates of fire (8 cell 3300 GP zap to 1.75v per cell). It simply eats away at the piston like nothing else unless you get a titanium coated or metal piston, but then it eats away at the gearbox(because of weight) and the sector gear. Personally i'd rather replace a piston. Generally the lower the amperage you charge at the more run time but less puch you get, in your case charging at 2 amps will not cut it. There are simply to many cells there for a lower charge rate to conteract your problem. All you need to do is remove 1 cell, its not terribly difficult if you can solder decently, if you can't solder well, take it to a local hobby shop and ask them to remove a cell. 8.4v(7 cell) is plenty sufficient for any AEG unless maybe you upgrade to 450 and use it as a sharp shooter, 9.6 might be preferable then in order to keep a snappy trigger response. You can get replacement shrink wrap for packs at hobby shops to, its only a few dollars for several feet. And all you need it a hair dryer to make it shrink around the pack. A 7 cell stick pack is generally configured like this ===| . In your case all you need to do is remove one cell at the end, then rotate the cell adjacent to the other six and solder the positive to the negative with the silver bars.
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  #61  
Old 09-02-2005, 07:04 PM
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hahaha, i'd take your advice, but it seems my piston can't handle anything over m100.... i had an m120 in there and used my GP cell, i lost fps due to the fact the gears still spun so fast and caught the piston in mid cycle, only giving me half the power air.... and in the end, about 200 rounds later, my piston stripped.... LOL! i'm running the m100 with the GP cell, and it runs great! no wear on the piston as far as 300 rounds going through it..., this thing fires 1000+ rpm!!! LOL!!!! i absolutely love it.... what do u think?

=)
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  #62  
Old 09-03-2005, 02:59 PM
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Sounds good to me, just remember to try to avoid long bursts. I had a similar setup in my P90 before i sold it, it has a SP110(410 fps chronoed) and 8 cell 3300 GP pack i managed to fit iniside of the gun(i put a few cells here and there, lol, took me days to get them in some spots i didn't know they could fit). But after about 5k rounds the piston started seeing significant wear. But its all good, it would have lasted another 5k. So with a high ROF you might have to replace the piston a bit more often, but its an easy job and they aren't expensive, so i'd say your setup sounds good. Now i'm going for realism in my AK-74m. So i decided on a 7 cell 3300 GP to keep the ROF around 800 RPM. By the way, how you like those GP cells? Alot of kick? That's why we use them in R/C, they seem to have lower IR, so they can withstand quite a bit of load.
And yes i acutally have the elusive $400 Guarder AK-74M kit(which has been discontinued for some time now) i came acrost on a good deal. I've been working on restoring the kit as it was a bit damaged(stripped screw holes, a few missing parts). But i'm almost done and its a solid piece now. I'll have to get some pictures up soon.
Also, i would suggest NOT using systema springs, they seem to put more strain on the gears without increased FPS. A Guarder SP110 will give you 400 FPS and its not quite as hard on the gears. You may say "but how can it produce the same FPS then", i say, its the metal quality, the SP springs have a much better quality of metal that is more consistent throughout the spring, its not so much total power output, but rather how smoothly the springs compress and decompress. Consistency is the key to everything in airsoft.
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  #63  
Old 09-03-2005, 07:01 PM
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I love the GP cells, they're so much better than my crummy sanyos that finally broke on me... they're 8.4 and 1700mah and can't run jack crap over m100... BLAH. I'll take your advice on the systema springs, i agree, it seems harder to push down for some reason, must be the composition of the metal.

I also own an sp 120 that i accidentally bought... thinking it was the same as m120... LOL, those stripped my ICS stock piston and wouldn't run on my old batteries, i tried it in my current setup- it runs, but it wears the piston too much. taht's the one that stripped my second piston after my stock.

Thanks for your help! INSANEbATTERYY MANNNN
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Old 09-04-2005, 02:04 AM
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Am I understanding you correctly that the motors used in R/C are a lot more powerful than airsoft motors? Is there a reason no one has modded an R/C motor into an airsoft gun yet (too big or too powerful)?
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  #65  
Old 09-04-2005, 04:30 PM
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You are correct, and R/C class motor is much different in CAN design. Think of it this way, imagine an AEG motor twice and wide and a bit shorter and you get the standard sized 540 R/C motor. Now imagine the most power aftermarket airsoft motor(eagle force hummer 1300 L) and double the power draw and total power output(such as RPM and torque). That would be a mild modified R/C motor. They are much bigger in diameter while being a bit shorter on average. Also a stock R/C motor will generate around 30,000 to 35,000 RPM!!! A modified, such as a 6.5 turn single high torque armature will produce more than 65,000 RPM!!! That's almost twice the fastest airsoft motor. But R/C motors are for racing, which is about speed. Airsoft motors have much different requirements, they need to be much more durable and almost maintinance free. I would discourage anyone from buying aftermarket "modified" motors for airsoft guns unless you are the gun guru type. Because after only a few bags of ammo that motor will need a rebuild in order to run properly. So stick with stock motors, they are much more durable. Besides, if you want higher ROF all you need is a bigger/more powerful battery, softer spring or higher speed gears. I find that stock gears are more than capable of handling 800~900 PRM with a Sp110(which my AK-74M chronod around 400~ 410, i used poor mans chrono, went straight through bottom of coke can 5 times in a row, and thats the outer edge close to the fold!!). In any case i've met many pple who completely negate their motors when doing a rebuild. its easy to clean, all you need is a bottle of electric motor cleaner(best use the R/C stuff as its specifically made for this type of application), and some bushing/bearing oil(again use hobby stuff, the motor cleaner and oil will not cost more than $10 or $11 and will last you years). Then clean the motor, reoil the bushings/bearings and it will run much better. See, what happens is that brush dust accumulates inside the motor, especially on the commutator as that is where the brushes come in contact with the armature. Then the dust starts to clog up the channels in the comm wich continually cut at the brushes to ensure they are making fresh metal contact. Whent that happens resistance builds up and the motor looses power and RPM. So a clean motor will make your gun shoot faster and run longer. It takes less than 5 minutes to do. I'd suggest it every time you rebuild your gearbox. Which i generally do at 15k~20k rounds. But that doesn't mean that you have to do it at that interval, every gun and form of gun has different uses and abuses, so just use your best judgment as to when you think it needs a rebuild.
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  #66  
Old 09-04-2005, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by fishgoh0nk
I love the GP cells, they're so much better than my crummy sanyos that finally broke on me... they're 8.4 and 1700mah and can't run jack crap over m100... BLAH. I'll take your advice on the systema springs, i agree, it seems harder to push down for some reason, must be the composition of the metal.

I also own an sp 120 that i accidentally bought... thinking it was the same as m120... LOL, those stripped my ICS stock piston and wouldn't run on my old batteries, i tried it in my current setup- it runs, but it wears the piston too much. taht's the one that stripped my second piston after my stock.

Thanks for your help! INSANEbATTERYY MANNNN
Lol. Sorry to hear that. If you go with guarder springs use the SP110, almost all of them are right around 400 depending on gun and other upgrades. They seem to very consistant and decently easy on the gearbox.
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  #67  
Old 09-04-2005, 05:09 PM
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Is it me or is this post getting very big? Or thread i should say.
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  #68  
Old 10-03-2005, 07:50 AM
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for an mp5 , i have a sanyo 8.4 battery is this a high enough bettery? i'm new to this. (battery's) b.c doesn't betery determine rps?and my rps is low.
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Old 10-03-2005, 01:58 PM
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That battery is fine, but I wouldn't get a 9.6 volt because I just wouldn't trust a UTG Mp5 to be able to handle it. I've seen you post about wanting a higher ROF before, honestly it isn't that important. My mp5 with 8.4 volt still shoots faster than my g36 with a 9.6.
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Old 10-03-2005, 02:30 PM
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o ok. thanks.
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  #71  
Old 10-03-2005, 04:51 PM
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I agree, 8.4v or 7 cells is plenty for almost all upgrades up to 400 fps. I'd suggest either sanyo 3000's or GP's 3300/3700's. Depending on how much you want to spend. For high ROF, i.e. 9.6v or 8 cell i'd stay at 350 fps, 400 with that battery puts alot of wear on the gearbox, and things just don't seem to last. Plus, a good 7 cell with a SP110(400 fps) will produce about 800~900 rds/minute. Which is a realistic ROF. My AK103 has a 7 cell 3300 GP pack in it and does between 800 and 900 rpm. Its very accurate to. I find that guns with fixed barrels, such as the AK or G3 series to be a bit more accurate than the AR-15's because the barrels are locked into place. Not to big a difference, but enough.
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  #72  
Old 11-04-2005, 03:16 PM
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is there suposed to be a fuse in the wire coming from the gun to the batt.
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Old 11-06-2005, 07:25 PM
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yes, the purpose of the fuse is to protect the geargox in case of a jam. However if you have confidence in the gearbox then you may want to forego the fuse and just hard wire it. I would deffinately reccomend leaving the fuse for high upgraded FPS or ROF guns.
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  #74  
Old 02-12-2006, 03:09 PM
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Im trying to figure out the best battery for a stock Classic Army G36c. Got any suggestions on it InSaNo?
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Old 02-12-2006, 04:53 PM
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That depends on how much room you have, give me a picture of the battery compartment or a link where i can see it, i might be able to dig something up. I think the G36c uses a smaller type 4/5c cells or AA sized. You could use the smaller AA sized packs and use like 10 cells for 15 v of power, promatch racing has GP 2300 MAH Nitro Car reciever batterys that would work well.
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