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  #26  
Old 09-30-2008, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by damnyankee View Post
Because electric guns and water don't mix
Myself and tons of other players in Ohio have played and trained in absolute downpours all day long. I have never had an AEG fail due to those conditions. A couple of splashes of water arent going to do anything to a well made AEG.
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  #27  
Old 09-30-2008, 11:39 PM
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I Agree. The only AEG I saw malfunction due to water was, ironically enough, a Systema (yes, I know why; you don't have to explain it to me).
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  #28  
Old 10-01-2008, 12:25 AM
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I'm going to have to agree with Maverick. Paint is awful. I'm still trying to scrub it out of my tac vest from the last time I was out.

I think we're all better off without the use of large projectile weapons. The "area" affect is hard to simulate, especially without the use of dangerous ordinance or heavy objects falling from the sky (think this). Even for simulation purposes, I think it would make the game less fun. Nobody wants to randomly get hit by mortar fire, and using a bombardment weapon is much less satisfying (at least to me) than a well-executed ambush or flanking maneuver.
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  #29  
Old 10-01-2008, 12:36 AM
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Im not saying this should be put into play or that I recommend it. One option, however, is using a waterballoon slingshot as mortars for each team. Each team would get one and then can be moved be a team of 3 men. The "shells" would simply be water balloons tossed from the slingshot. If it was a necessary thing to have a mortar I figure the water balloon slingshot would be the least painful and the most accepted. Tell me what you think?
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  #30  
Old 10-01-2008, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Shadersnake View Post
Im not saying this should be put into play or that I recommend it. One option, however, is using a waterballoon slingshot as mortars for each team. Each team would get one and then can be moved be a team of 3 men. The "shells" would simply be water balloons tossed from the slingshot. If it was a necessary thing to have a mortar I figure the water balloon slingshot would be the least painful and the most accepted. Tell me what you think?

For me, one of the main attractions of airsoft is the realism, and launching water balloons from slingshots is about as far away from realism as you can get.
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  #31  
Old 10-01-2008, 12:46 AM
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I completely agree Thats why I wouldn't reccomend doing it! Ha ha. Just giving another perspective to those of whom may still want to incorporate a mortar in a safe and doable way.
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  #32  
Old 10-01-2008, 07:02 AM
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Alright, I was just wondering why they weren't integrated into airsoft. As far as noone would like playing with random mortars falling... I remember the begining of the year, Operation: Snow Blind I believe; when a bunch of us went out and played through what was simulated mortar fire. They had to have their refs walk up to random people and tell them they had just been hit by mortar fire. I don't know about anyone else, but I had a blast. I do not remember hearing anyone complaining about it being unsportsman like or unrealistic. I understand everyones beef about getting paint on their clothes, but to say mortar in airsoft wouldn't be fun or that there is already enough equipment in airsoft is a little absurd. I am waiting on the day they roll a full sized airsoft firing M1A1 into Airsoft Arms. Granted it would be made of paper machette so it wouldn't hurt anyone if they were ran over.
At any rate, thanks for the responses guys. I kinda figured it had to do with the paint staining and/or clean up but I didn't know if there was a deeper reason.
The flour thing is a good idea.
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  #33  
Old 10-01-2008, 08:32 AM
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Flour --- No. Once again, i've got to clean that crap off of me and my gear. Sure its just flour, but we all sweat out in the field, then it turns to crap. Put some flour on your chest rig and see how long it takes you to get it all out.

Water? No thank you. My gun may survive, but there's no guarantee for my radio. What about water logged mags? Will they survive, sure they might. But do i want to break down every single one to dry them out that night? No.
Water may be refreshing on a nice hot day, however not logging down my gear. You'll see me field stripping and laying in the creek at Springfield instead.

As for simulating mortar fire like at Snow Blind, its been done at other events. Dirty Sandbox gave the "military" forces the ability to call in an air strike. A ref would then go to that sector and call anyone out who was there. To add a little more realism they could have fired a noise cannon right after we called in the strike. It would have been perfect.

I'm willing to bet some of the individuals for this dont even have a decent set of equipment. If you want to talk about incorporating more things into milsim thats great, but get the basics down first. I see more people with 100 dollar Rail mount grenade launchers on their weapons than having a radio...its pretty sad.

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  #34  
Old 10-01-2008, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavrick View Post
Flour --- No. Once again, i've got to clean that crap off of me and my gear. Sure its just flour, but we all sweat out in the field, then it turns to crap. Put some flour on your chest rig and see how long it takes you to get it all out.

Water? No thank you. My gun may survive, but there's no guarantee for my radio. What about water logged mags? Will they survive, sure they might. But do i want to break down every single one to dry them out that night? No.
Water may be refreshing on a nice hot day, however not logging down my gear. You'll see me field stripping and laying in the creek at Springfield instead.

As for simulating mortar fire like at Snow Blind, its been done at other events. Dirty Sandbox gave the "military" forces the ability to call in an air strike. A ref would then go to that sector and call anyone out who was there. To add a little more realism they could have fired a noise cannon right after we called in the strike. It would have been perfect.

I'm willing to bet some of the individuals for this dont even have a decent set of equipment. If you want to talk about incorporating more things into milsim thats great, but get the basics down first. I see more people with 100 dollar Rail mount grenade launchers on their weapons than having a radio...its pretty sad.

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Alright.. if you can honestly play airsoft and not have to clean your rig.. i am amazed.. what do you float over the mud? If you don't get filthy when playing airsoft..? You aren't playing.. you're hiking.

I don't like the use of paint in airsoft either. Nerf rockets (with whistlers) work fine in filling this role of bazooka or mortar guy. Alot of paintball places have switched from paint projectiles to simple nerf rockets. 400 psi at 150-200ft. It's no more dangerous than firing one from your 203 if you are following your engagements.

Grenades: I have not seen airsoft grenades used in any real quantity. Noone wants to throw 50 bucks around.

Again i can understand not wanting paint on you.. but the idea that you're afraid to get dirty...? Please. Mud has caused me more trouble in cleaning then paint ever will.

as far as gear.. i'd rather see mortars on the field any day then to see someone geared out and stay sparkling clean all day(hiking).. Seriously .. how do you do it..? i've got to know.
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  #35  
Old 10-01-2008, 11:41 AM
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a little mud is a little different than caked on white flour. As far as getting mud on my rig, never had to worry about it. I dont go wallowing in it, if i lay down, i dont dive right into a mud puddle. Flour is a little different than mud. Afterall, thats why they use it as a base in paper mache.
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  #36  
Old 10-01-2008, 02:02 PM
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Yeah, Mavrick is right. Flour when wet turns to a paste almost. Would make for one heck of a cleaning job. I didn't take sweat into consideration. I also agree about the water. Although there have been a few game where I had wished for a downpour to cool things off. Air strikes is something else I've been trying to come up with. I don't see how they are going to be possible without a ref though. Unless, of course; we got a gyro and dropped buckets of bbs from above...just kidding.

Well, heck. I was hoping with all the brain power we have in here that some sort of safe projectile would be thought up. Seems as though the Nerf balls are about the only thing that could really be used without putting anyone in danger or just ticking someone off. Those small Nerf footballs seem to be getting harder to find too. Hmm, what if a nerf was cut in half and hollowed out just enough to hold say 20 bbs...no that would throw off the way it fell.
Okay, back to square one. How do you simulate mortar fire safely and effectively without using refs?
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Last edited by Wraith; 10-01-2008 at 02:09 PM.
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  #37  
Old 10-01-2008, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
Okay, back to square one. How do you simulate mortar fire safely and effectively without using refs?
Better yet, how do you simulate the difficulty of actually hitting the right area with a mortar? I'm sure there will be people willing to sacrifice trigger time to be part of a 2-man mortar team, which, as was said before, would have to lug around heavy equipment in order to really simulate the job. However, once set up, a mortar team isn't really known for its pinpoint accuracy. Do they just sit there with their 100lb weights and say "thoomp" every 10 seconds or so? I think it'd be a bit unfair to have someone simply point and say, "that's what we hit, they're dead." It's not how it works in real life. Don't forget the use of cover and the spread of the shrapnel.

I'd be willing to try things out, because on one hand, it does sound like it could be used as an effective bombardment tactic, but it seems like there are far too many kinks to work out.
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  #38  
Old 10-01-2008, 06:40 PM
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There are two devices that I know of that use talcum (spell?) or baking powder. The madbull powdershot landmine, and claymore mines. I am sure there are more devices out there that use this method. I have never used the powder in my claymores, but that is a personal choice (or maybe Im just too lazy). however, I dont think they would damage any equipment, or be very hard to dust off, both those are both guesses. Ultimately, I guess it is up to whoever is running the game.
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  #39  
Old 10-01-2008, 07:41 PM
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I know I've brought this up before but here are some really cool simulators.

http://www.combattrainingsolutions.c...roduct%20Demos

Why haven't we adapted something like these for airsoft. Price maybe.
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  #40  
Old 10-01-2008, 07:49 PM
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Besides which, airsoft isn't a real war. It's a sport, and war isn't sportsman like. In war, a lot of things are based on luck. Landmines, Mortars, Artillery, disease, shrapnel, and most of the other major killers in a war are mostly the luck of the draw.

In most conventional wars more people are killed by randomly flying bits of metal than they are by rifles. That's not true in airsoft. Airsoft is man vs. man.
Ah but LAAWS n and Claymores are made I have seen a picture of a prototype airsoft mortar made in England. I betwith some PVC, a NERF rocket and compressed air of some type, you could get one to work
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  #41  
Old 10-02-2008, 06:47 AM
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Yeah, it's not the delivery system that's giving me problems. It's the projectile. An air cannon isn't too hard to make and can send a projectile quite a good distance. Problem is what about when that projectile comes down. If it hits someone directly is it going to hurt them.

To continue with an earlier thought, if you were to cut a nerf football in half (or near half) across the "threads" and hollowed out a small cavity then took a plunger of some sorts (think of a push pop and the plunger they use) and inserted it into the cavity with the rod toward the nose but not quite breaking through the football. When the projectile hit the plunger would be forced up popping the bbs out of the cavity at the other end. Granted there are some things to overcome. How do you ensure the right end is the one impacting the ground? How would you get the bbs to stay inside the cavity until impact? And most importantly, would it be safe if it were to hit someone?
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  #42  
Old 10-03-2008, 01:27 PM
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If the nerf-bomb has enough energy that is sprays BB's at impact, its got too much energy to be safe. You need some sort of internal energy source, but then they have weight, which means they are to heavy to be safe.

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  #43  
Old 10-05-2008, 05:47 AM
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Possibly. Assuming most of the forward velocity bleeds off in flight you would be left with the projectile basically free falling. This doesn't actually happen, there is still some forward momentum left on an object when it starts falling, I'm not real sure on how much though.
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Old 10-06-2008, 01:52 PM
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Downward energy is still energy. Gravity sucks. Tops of heads are soft.


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Old 10-06-2008, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damnyankee View Post
Downward energy is still energy. Gravity sucks. Tops of heads are soft.


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Actually, tops of heads are quite hard, unless you're a baby or your sutures haven't closed. It's just that minuscule amount of tissues that are soft. Only 5 layers!
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Old 10-06-2008, 08:03 PM
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I've been trying to figure out an airsoft mortar for a little while now. The best video I've seen on youtube is this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mbyC...watch_response

From what I can tell, the tube would hurt like hell when it came down for the kill. However if a form of padding could be attached to the round I'm sure it could make things a little easier.

As for hits, I would think it would come to the size of the mortar, and event organizer giving the final word on the blast radius. The round in the video, I would say could pass for an 80mm mortar, and thus should kill anyone within 6-8 feet. Also rules would have to be establish for this thing, for one, an observer. No blind firing a mortar, because I don't want to waste an hour and a half looking for the shells in the field. The observer serves many purposes, pin-pointing artillery, tracking the shells, and also clarifying hit's.

Better yet, couldn't we figure out a way to launch a bean bag from a mortar tube?
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  #47  
Old 10-06-2008, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damnyankee View Post
Because electric guns and water don't mix.

Christopher
actually, airsoft guns can do just fine even after being submerged in water, and can even be shot while submerged just fine. Its not just the rain that isn't a problem.

the only problem is, as it is with ANY gun, stripping it so it can dry and not rust.
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Old 10-07-2008, 01:42 AM
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If I recall, most guns have as few parts as possible....most airsoft guns are what...30+

Thus why I love a real AK....10 parts of less!
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Old 10-07-2008, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damnyankee View Post
Downward energy is still energy. Gravity sucks. Tops of heads are soft.


Christopher
Yes it is. If you can't handle getting hit by a nerf football, you probably aren't on an airsoft field.
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Old 10-07-2008, 04:26 PM
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Think of it this way a lot of us play this sport for the realisam. the fact we can put on the gear that are armed forces wear and we spend all this money on this gear why mess it up with paint and plus I think we are coming up and paintball is going down because of some of these facts and when you start adopting paintball equipment and things like that it gives paintballers a reason to say your not much different from us or anything like that. Bottom line we are AIRSOFTERS not paintballers lets keep it that way if someone wants to make a BB morter more power to you.
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