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View Poll Results: Would you or your team be interested in attending basic milsim classes? (NOTE: Only n
Yes. I am solo player. I would attend a basic milsim class. 52 32.50%
Yes. I speak for my team. We would attend a basic milsim class. 36 22.50%
No. I would rather take a hands-on approach and learn by practicing with a milsim team. 61 38.13%
I am not interested in milsim. 11 6.88%
Voters: 160. You may not vote on this poll

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  #26  
Old 01-29-2008, 11:01 AM
MK1 Sniper MK1 Sniper is offline
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and I think people who really want to learn and progress in milsim airsoft could really really benefit by having something like this.
<<<<<<<<

I can only speak for myself but agree there would be a market for it. I do sense from some milsim players that "if you're not playing milsim, you're not really playing airsoft." While I might very well agree after learning milsim techniques, joining a team, etc., I think there will also always be a place for open, more casual play as well.

I don't think there's much room for elitism in this game. Most events need all the players they can get.
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  #27  
Old 01-29-2008, 11:12 AM
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Personally before we make certification courses, i'd like to work on general airsoft courses for the new guys.

1) Gear Class: Getting the right gear for the game
2) Getting to know your AEG: The right way to handle the trigger
3) Field talk: What to yell and what not to yell; "C'mon guys, they're over here!"
4) Radios: Indepth look into why a radio is important including tips on how to save your allowance to purchase one instead of the M203 Launcher you will turn around and sell in 2 months!
5) Footwear: The right apparrel for the right job


Some advanced training courses

1) Chain of Command: That guy over the radio isnt telling you for the other team's benefit.
2) AEGs Advanced: Getting the performance out of your rifle instead of INSANEOMGWTFBBQ FPS!
3) AO Features: Mind the force, rather, mind the SEARCH

I'd be totally willing to help out on some of these that i have teachable experience in.
I've also pondered setting up some sort of used/hand me down gear system for individuals who arent as fortunate as the rest of us that have 4 pairs of boots in the closet and 3 sets of woodlands.

Milsim is fun as hell, but its alot more fun if some of these items are addressed as well.
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  #28  
Old 01-29-2008, 11:22 AM
MK1 Sniper MK1 Sniper is offline
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Milsim is fun as hell, but its alot more fun if some of these items are addressed as well.
<<<<<<<<<

Yep. As players become educated, they will fit into the flow of milsim and non-milsim events alike. The level of play would be raised in a defacto sense, certifications or not.
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  #29  
Old 01-29-2008, 11:29 AM
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What if we took the "certification" out of it, and instead made it just an educational opportunity for anyone interested. That's the whole point anyway, right? There'd be no pass/fail, no diploma, and no possibility for accusations of elitism, just pure education for anyone who wants to become a better milsim player.
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  #30  
Old 01-29-2008, 11:33 AM
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I agree with TheBanker, I don't really think a grade is necessary, participation in the class should be sufficient, though I think a patch would still be cool.

I also think that Mav's idea of more introductory classes would be beneficial. If someone wants to volunteer to hold these classes, and if a classroom environment is needed for some of it, we have an empty room at our Milford store that I would gladly make available for such a project.

Anything we can do as a community to raise the level of play in our state, only benefits everyone. Even those from other states who use AO as a model for starting their own airsoft communities.

We have similar ideas in the past, and nothing ever came of it. So I suggest we form a committee to make this happen. Otherwise, we might just end up with a lot of talk and not a whole lot of action.
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  #31  
Old 01-29-2008, 11:45 AM
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I second Locutus' committee idea. Nothing will get done otherwise.
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  #32  
Old 01-29-2008, 12:36 PM
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I also agree with dropping certification and going with education. If a committee is formed it should be comprised of knowledgable people willing to invest time and effort into the community.
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  #33  
Old 01-29-2008, 12:50 PM
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I also agree with dropping certification and going with education. If a committee is formed it should be comprised of knowledgable people willing to invest time and effort into the community. I wouldn't have brought it up if I wasn't willing to be a part of it.
<<<<<<<<<<

I might suggest that the senior members on this forum put together written materials and that a reasonable fee be paid by people like me to offset your direct costs and enough so that you could all go out to dinner for your trouble.

Then schedule a date at a location somewhere in the middle of the state where "boots on the ground" training which centers on the written materials would be offered. Again, a reasonable fee should apply.

Offering a patch to those who do a credible job is a great idea and, if event coordinators want to require such a patch of all participants at any given event (or some percentage of participants) that would be their option. Perhaps those who have earned the patch would get more responsible positions in battle, etc
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  #34  
Old 01-29-2008, 12:59 PM
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Now that this is going the educational route insted of the airsoft ohio ranger school way i'd be very intrested in being apart of this. I've thought many times that a training type of game day would be very good for the young players (and some of the old too).
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  #35  
Old 01-29-2008, 01:01 PM
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For patches, instead of handing them out after one completed course, require that a player go through all "advanced" courses in order to obtain the patch.
<<<<<

works for me. I would definitely participate and I think others would as well.

One other thought might be to offer the actual field training at multiple locations throughout the state, splitting up the "professors" according to geographical location. People might be more inclined to participate if they didn't have to drive "too far" (whatever that is)
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  #36  
Old 01-29-2008, 01:05 PM
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MK1, I agree, we would definitely need support from Northern, Central and Southern Ohio.

I would be happy to moderate/manage the committee, while the committee hashes out the details.
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  #37  
Old 01-29-2008, 01:33 PM
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I would be happy to moderate/manage the committee, while the committee hashes out the details.
<<<<<<<

you 'da man. I think all of us should be willing to support your efforts with reasonable donations and, if there's any grunt-work a dumb guy like me can provide, just ask.

Also please see new thread, Making Airsoft Affordable. You are clearly one of the most knowledgeable forum members and would like your thoughts
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  #38  
Old 01-29-2008, 01:42 PM
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Seeing as how i brought up the educational, i'd be more than happy to be on this committee.
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  #39  
Old 01-29-2008, 01:45 PM
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i'd be more than happy to be on this committee.
<<<<<<

You da man, too. Let me know, seriously, if I can help get it off the ground.
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  #40  
Old 01-29-2008, 01:48 PM
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i'm all for the edjumakachon of the committee. I'm sure there's some things i'd learn in the process myself.
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  #41  
Old 01-29-2008, 02:01 PM
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I get bored.....well.......most of my time so Id be willing to help out with some projects. Basic training is prob something I would be best at helping out or also as far as projects, videos, audio cration, webdesign I have been known to set up good frames for people to flush out who have the skills to do so.

Personaly I still think that the patches are the best thing to do. And for those who have been in the sport long enough they should be able to maybe just blow through an online test to pass the basic glasses. I dont think that the patches should be used to keep people from games but to give people something fun to shoot for while they get better in the sport. And if need be for the more "Advanced" games this would be something to help make sure that people are all on the same exact page....or at least in the same book. Yes there will still be open games and games that dont care how many classes you have taken or patches you have, but I know from at least doing other things when I go do something and everyone is so above my head simply because they are better all around I don't always have fun depeneding on the setup. Nothing against those who are better then me lol its all against me for jumping in over my head and getting washed away by the fast action. Pluss who knows by making glasses and goals for everyone to get to on any lvl. People might start talking to eachother more. Friends will be made. More teams maybe will pop up. People can get other excited about the sport. Bc now depending on how much we put into the training there are things for people to work for and try hard to get, and there are going to be things that dont really matter. So for those looking for something "bigger" to be a part of and kinda get taken away in a role or something like that you have this and for those who just like to shoot at people trust me I have a strong strong strong feeling those types of games will never die. I mean heck everyone likes to just mess around from time to time.


***FINAL THOUGHT***

Oscar, simply seeing as how this was your post and you have started off this, I say you should at least for now start gathering ideas from people and setting up groups / braintrusts to help move this project forward. Maybe get with some admins here and start a pole to help you get info or make other threads that address just small parts of the entire project so you can get people input on that part.
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  #42  
Old 01-29-2008, 05:24 PM
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These are great ideas. Here's another idea....instead of using up good playdates for the classes, have a few regular meetings a year, but also have the class ready to go as a *replacement* for play on days where weather would otherwise cause a poor turnout or prohibit play. Sort of an "in case of inclement weather" contingency.
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  #43  
Old 01-29-2008, 06:35 PM
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I'd happiliy volunteer for the commitee, but do not want to moderate it.

PM sent with an idea Oscar.
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  #44  
Old 01-29-2008, 07:01 PM
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Reply sent Loki.

Good idea Merlinfire. Once the material is put together it would be easy to whip it out and start teaching.

I do know that limited milsim training is happening right now (both directly and indirectly) with Blade at his field and our mini-op's that we started at Conquest, but there's no real formal training going on as far as I know.

The problem a teacher would have is how to teach the more in-depth stuff without teaching his team's SOP. The classes would have to be intentionally vague and/or centered around getting teams in a milsim frame of mind and designing their own SOP. SOP's can be closely guarded secrets for milsim teams.
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  #45  
Old 01-29-2008, 07:14 PM
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Whatever you/we decide to do it should be KISS. Keep it simple stupid.

What i usually see take place here is one idea starts, then 100 more are proposed and the whole thing spirals down.

Its just like our constitution. A few things were set in stone, then everyone started adding...next thing ya know we've got bills up to spy on our internet political groups, no smoking, ect, ect when we've still got people bustin caps in asses in tha projects. The more you add, the less likely people will follow and support.

I would suggest get the committee together, have a meeting to come up with some ideas, propose such ideas to AO, take some suggestions and then come up with some basic settings to carry out said edjumakachions.
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Old 01-29-2008, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
The problem a teacher would have is how to teach the more in-depth stuff without teaching his team's SOP...

Not really. I'll use my personal experience here to convey my message. I've trained/observed with BSTAB, Black Eage, Phalanx, a poser (some know who I'm talking about), as well as with my own team which includes prior military and law enforcement in non-game settings. No two groups that I've trained with have had 100% the same SOP. Each has their own way of doing things. As I see it, I've trained in 3+ different ways of CQB. Am I privy to each groups SOPs? No. Nor did any of those groups need to show their SOPs to me. My point is that a teacher should be able to see multiple ways of doing things. A teacher should be capable of training/teaching numerous tactics or styles without commentary as to which is "the best". Allow the "students" to determine which style or tactics fit them or their team the best.

So in shorter terms...teachers should have an open mind to other ways of doing things. Not to mention teach numerous tactics so teams could chose for themselves.
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  #47  
Old 01-29-2008, 08:07 PM
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Decoy, I'm in total agreement with everything you said. What I meant was finding a way to teach without being specific--let the students do their own thinking and come up with their own answers. Basically the same thing, just said a different way. When putting together the material you would have to think outside your own SOP.

I've put in to have a poll added. Before we get too far ahead of ourselves here I want to see what the response is from non-milsim players. If the interest isn't there then it's not going to be worth the effort. Looking at the forums I don't see a lot of interest in wanting to learn milsim (outside this thread).

Another more efficient way might be to have teams that are interested in milsim contact the team of their choice and ask for help.

UPDATE: The poll is up. Only non-milsim players/teams should vote.
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  #48  
Old 01-29-2008, 08:39 PM
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I dont think that this should be limited to milsim. There are lots of things one can use in non milsim events. Proper dress, team organization, coordination skills, ect all can be very beneficial in any airsoft situation.
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  #49  
Old 01-29-2008, 08:52 PM
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I fully agree with you Mavrick about the general training. Maybe one group should be for normal general airsoft stuff another for the milsim and whatever. Just this form is working on the milsim aspect but if there are other training sections classes grades ect what not have you lol they should all talk together and get a general class idea. This will better all lvls and also will make it easy for someone to go from a begining class and just jump right into a different class.
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Old 01-29-2008, 10:17 PM
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I think we should make this very simple to star, since like someone said earlier, when it begins to get complex, we loose sight of our original goal. Lets pick a saturday within the nec 1 or 2 months and have a trial at conquest with a couple of the central ohio teams, and have a couple games afterwards. Lets just have a VERY simple course, and a decent game afterwards. If we liked it, we can have another one thats slightly more complex, and go on from there.
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