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Old 02-27-2014, 03:20 PM
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Cold Hard Truth AAR

Since AO is back up, we will start this so we can hopefully get lots of feedback in mostly the same place. I know a lot of you gave awesome feedback on Facebook already so if you want to copy and paste that here that would be awesome!

I want to just thank all the players who came out to this event to support us in our first event. You guys took a leap of faith. We know we have lots of problems that need fixed and with the feedback we have been getting it wont be too hard to be able to improve.

A HUGE thanks to OOBI, Jonah, Sky, Ruffy, Cody, and everyone else who helped us pull this off. Without their help this probably would have never happened.
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Old 02-27-2014, 03:41 PM
AustintownTy AustintownTy is offline
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Okay,

My name is Tyler, I was platoon leader 1 for the Rebel/Russian forces.

Let me first start this off by saying thank you to the guys who put this event on, the guys who let us play on their land, and the guys that kept it organized and put the work into making this one of the most memorable experiences of my life.

The AO was excellent, it was awesome, and words cannot describe how awesome it was. No better place to play airsoft in my mind. It was very physically challenging as well as mentally. The hikes up and down tested my body and the bodies of those around me. The gameplay was awesome as well as the objectives and the few firefights I got into were intense and lasted a while.

There are a few problems I think I need to address however:

Up on the hill at well 2 there was a lot of hits being made but hits not being called by the U.S forces. I witnessed them myself through the scope on an SVD that one of the russian guys were carrying. Me, nor my CO were able to contact admins to take on the problem at the time, but to my knowledge it was corrected, but that was from word of mouth so I cannot be sure.

Secondly:
I fully acknowledge that this was a two day event and that it is not fun when people quit early, however that being said, while i was in my camp with 5 other people packing our things to be done for the day and make our descent (we were physically cashed, and had some gun issues) the American team stormed the camp with 10-25 people (rough estimate). Me and the 5 other guys that were packing had on our dead rags, and our guns were put away, we were unarmed, and clearly not playing. From the ridge above our camp, multiple people on the american team started firing upon us, hitting each of us multiple times, I witnessed my younger brother zack get hit at least 6 times, as well as taking 5 hits of my own. They popped smoke, threw it into the camp and stormed in, firing into tents and kicking around gear to clear the area, even though we were repeatedly yelling that we were the only ones in the camp at the time.

One of my guys was being a dumbass and shot back at them and 4 guys lit him up. (he deserved it) but after that, they remained in the camp and starting shooting at each other after an admin had called game over. They were shooting at each other from high and low, and were even shooting us because we were between players trying to pack our stuff. One player who went by the name Spaniard stopped to make sure we were okay and asked us for some water. Another player tried to provoke me, and told me "this is what you get for quitting early". Now to me this is unacceptable, and the whole time, there was an admin on the ridge above the camp (i dont know who he was, unarmed guy wearing black shirt and tan LBV) he was the one who called the game over.

Now i didnt go to an admin after the game because i was hiking a ton of gear down the hill and just wanted to go home being wet, cold and tired. I just wanted to post this on here, so that if anyone else knows about this they can support me, as well as anyone can come forward to apologize for this. This is not what airsoft is about. Its about having a good time and being passionate about a sport. If you want to dress up in operator gear, and go milsim hard, then join the military, but if not, please remember that you are just grown men playing army, and try not to take it so seriously next time. Thanks.

Also, to the guys who held hill on well 2. Hell yes, that was awesome, and to the guys who stormed it at 11pm, you guys were terrifying. Good game overall, just a little unsporting conduct. Thanks again.

Last edited by Blade; 02-27-2014 at 04:00 PM.
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Old 02-27-2014, 03:58 PM
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Old 02-27-2014, 04:15 PM
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Complacency is one thing, cheating and having bad sportsmanship is another, not all US guys were bad, but a good portion was. Great job with the op (especially for your first time), there is nothing you can do about people, just have more mobile refs next time to settle issues and don't be afraid to kick people out.
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Old 02-27-2014, 04:32 PM
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I had a lot of fun. Though my mindset about total immersion games is much different then most people.
Running recon for the Rebel's we completed most the day objectives on saturday and spent the evening on a hillside reporting every US movement having several US squads walk withing a few feet of us several times. Real recon, I'll admit I had a hardon that'd make Hugh Hefner Jealous.
I did not fire a shot until near Endex on Sunday when I lead a ragtag bunch through the ravine to attack the US base. Unbeknownst to us the game had ended early so the US fired back but admitted they did not call hit because they wanted more trigger time. Understandable.

I know Ruffy, Cody and I have discussed this on Facebook but many players do not have the experience that is needed when it comes to these overnight games and that is where the rebels fell short. For a first run I didn't see too many problems.

I look forward to playing on the mountain again at Crucible 3 where I plan on walking away the champion.
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Old 02-27-2014, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustintownTy View Post
Okay,

My name is Tyler, I was platoon leader 1 for the Rebel/Russian forces.

Up on the hill at well 2 there was a lot of hits being made but hits not being called by the U.S forces. I witnessed them myself through the scope on an SVD that one of the russian guys were carrying. Me, nor my CO were able to contact admins to take on the problem at the time, but to my knowledge it was corrected, but that was from word of mouth so I cannot be sure.

Secondly:
I fully acknowledge that this was a two day event and that it is not fun when people quit early, however that being said, while i was in my camp with 5 other people packing our things to be done for the day and make our descent (we were physically cashed, and had some gun issues) the American team stormed the camp with 10-25 people (rough estimate). Me and the 5 other guys that were packing had on our dead rags, and our guns were put away, we were unarmed, and clearly not playing. From the ridge above our camp, multiple people on the american team started firing upon us, hitting each of us multiple times, I witnessed my younger brother zack get hit at least 6 times, as well as taking 5 hits of my own. They popped smoke, threw it into the camp and stormed in, firing into tents and kicking around gear to clear the area, even though we were repeatedly yelling that we were the only ones in the camp at the time.

One of my guys was being a dumbass and shot back at them and 4 guys lit him up. (he deserved it) but after that, they remained in the camp and starting shooting at each other after an admin had called game over. They were shooting at each other from high and low, and were even shooting us because we were between players trying to pack our stuff. One player who went by the name Spaniard stopped to make sure we were okay and asked us for some water. Another player tried to provoke me, and told me "this is what you get for quitting early". Now to me this is unacceptable, and the whole time, there was an admin on the ridge above the camp (i dont know who he was, unarmed guy wearing black shirt and tan LBV) he was the one who called the game over.

Now i didnt go to an admin after the game because i was hiking a ton of gear down the hill and just wanted to go home being wet, cold and tired. I just wanted to post this on here, so that if anyone else knows about this they can support me, as well as anyone can come forward to apologize for this. This is not what airsoft is about. Its about having a good time and being passionate about a sport. If you want to dress up in operator gear, and go milsim hard, then join the military, but if not, please remember that you are just grown men playing army, and try not to take it so seriously next time. Thanks.

Also, to the guys who held hill on well 2. Hell yes, that was awesome, and to the guys who stormed it at 11pm, you guys were terrifying. Good game overall, just a little unsporting conduct. Thanks again.
Let me clear up this whole Americans who stormed the camp thing, first off it was an objective given to us in the morning by our CO and then it was backed up by the EO's. Once we got up on top of the ridge we saw people in the camp, we however didn't see any red rags so we went weapons hot and stormed the camp, threw a smoke for cover. Once the first squad got into the camp and declared it clear, we stopped shooting a the guys with the RED rags on there heads and started shooting at each other for ****s and laughs because the game was pretty much over at that point. Im sorry but this was an active game at that point and if you were getting shot and you were dead you should have moved out and away. As for the provoking and disrespect to your property i don't know anything about because i stayed up on the ridge the whole time.
And really hit calling come on, look every body was layered up and sometimes you just cant feel this stuff if you know a guy is not calling his hits keep shooting him
End of rant
This was a great event and thanks to all the Eos and the landowners. Cant wait for the next one
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Old 02-27-2014, 05:44 PM
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That was our FOB. Not our base of operations.
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Old 02-27-2014, 05:48 PM
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The US thought they were taking our base, but our base was at well head 4. They never came close. I had fun, everyone on Rebels did a great job. I was with my friends, I laughed a lot and ate way too much. Thank you for hosting this and giving me my first-time CO position. I know I could have done my job better, but for me, airsoft is about having fun, which I think we all had. Mission accomplished, thank you again!!
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Old 02-27-2014, 06:48 PM
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THE FOLLOWING IS A FACEBOOK CONVERSATION BETWEEN JONAH AND I: My text is standard, Jonah's responses are italicized. The entire text has been directly quoted, yet edited for clarity and structure.

...(Jonah asks me for feedback)...

Being an EO myself, I have a lot to say. Good and bad.
Let's get the rough stuff out of the way, first.
My two cents: If you're going to cheat, you might as well try to make it look convincing.

[It was t]hat bad on [the US team]?

I've never seen worse conduct in any of my 5 years of Airsoft.
I've Marshalled games with 6 [year]-olds that were [fairer].

Holy crap.

We literally sat there and got shot until they ran out of ammo and had to walk back. It was quite literally the epitome of a silent protest.

And that was just the battle for that one hill.

Don't even get me started on the night game. Fortunately[,] most of your issues seem to [lie] with the players and not your staff/organization . . . [Here's what I'll say:] All referees should be directly in the center of a combat zone. [No more than] a hundred feet [to] either side of the line.

They [didn't] have staff at combat?

That's a negative.

Interesting.

The entire fight was non-supervised for [three] or [four] hours.

Wow.

[Yeah,] . . . all the while we were constantly [calling in to staff] channels on [the] radio.

I know [that] we asked . . . if [the staff] needed support and got a lot of, ["We] are good.["]

[We didn't get a] response.

[. . . personal conversation . . .]

Well[,] that leads me to my second point of advice[:] Never have open auditions for [C]ommanding [O]fficers, [E]xecutive [O]fficers, or platoon leaders.

[. . . neither side felt comfortable with their Commanding Officers . . .]

. . . I [knew] them . . . [both,] yes.

I absolutely agree [with your thoughts regarding staff and leadership positions].

Thirdly, . . . never leave any information out of a safety briefing . . . Read the whole damn packet[--] it doesn't matter if it takes you an hour or not.

[. . .]

On a side note, I love the field. However[,] the layout was disappointing at best. The rebel camp was situated directly down hill[,] on a ridiculous slope right next to the path.
While we were sleeping, all the runoff from the top of the mountain came down and flooded us out. We had to build a fire and dry up.

Were you guys by the slip in the road?

If you still have the map[,] its in square 7-A/B.

. . . [Y]ou guys were [very far] away from where the base was supposed to be.

So we were told. [. . .]

[. . . there was a lot of miscommunication and misdirection on the RU/Rebel team . . .]

Both [COs need to be] . . . given specific rules on where they can be, where they can't, be who they should be with, what they should be doing, and the team [should know] all of this. It keeps the COs in [check and] also keeps the game [f]air [and] balanced.

[Absolutely].

. . . The Russian team was put too close to the US team; there were objectives behind us.

[. . . in my opinion, our faction's troop movements were not well-planned . . .]

[During the night,] I had my [squad and assisting elements] squared off in [the] trees in the mountains around our campsite. Most of our team had basically given up on the day-- it was [seven] o'clock and everybody was already [at camp or] in bed. We literally watched as NATO left their base, walked within . . . [twenty] feet of our positions, and surrounded our entire campsite.

[. . .]

[If] you're going to have a night game, your [admins] can't clock out at [eight o' clock.]

[. . .]

Night combat [gets] ugly fast.

You guys do have a safety kill right? Bang-bang?

[Yes.]

Well, I spent an hour hunting down an enemy [squad] . . . with my buddy. When we finally got up to him and he [stepped away from his team] I tapped him on the shoulder with my rubber knife whilst saying, "Bang-bang, safety-kill".

He then proceeded to turn around [and] full-auto blast me with his PolarStar.

That's lame . . . [.]

[. . .]

[R]egardless, I think the key to this [O]peration would have been more staff involvement. Normally I'm opposed to that, but in [situations] like [these, it's very necessary.]

I still had a great time, so no harm, no foul.
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Old 02-27-2014, 08:42 PM
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First wanted to say - thank you to MWM & OOBI for putting together the kind of event I've wanted to see since I started playing. I had a great time at the event.

STORY TIME

Got to the field around 11:30 AM, and got my stuff together pretty quickly. Chrono'd, went through last minute gear checks, and found myself on my way across the creek onto the field. From there the hike began. This was easily one of the most brutal hikes I have ever gone on. Carrying a 100lbs ruck on a constant incline for something like 45 minutes was very new airsofting experience for me… and I thought Springfields hill was bad… anyways, we made it to our staging area along a road and hung out there for a bit, catching our breath and what not. Eventually myself and another guy hiked up to the top of the mountain to get a feel for the area. We got word that briefing would be in two hours, so we hiked our way back down and waited.

After briefing we gathered our gear and began hiking with the rest of the Rebels/Russians. Our SL decided that the area the Rebels selected was poor in choice, so we hiked up to the top of the mountain and situated our patrol base there instead. After putting enough face paint on to confuse people about what race I actually was, I moved out with another guy and patrolled down the road we originally used as our staging area. We spotted a NATO patrol moving along the ridgeline to our left, which led right to our patrol base. Doubling back, we climbed back up the mountain and met up with a few other Russians and some Rebels and prepared for contact.

We ended up getting into a huge firefight. Roughly 10 of us vs. maybe 20 of them. Knowing we weren't going to be able to hold, we fell back along the road until we were almost back to where our Russian patrol base was. The rest of RR linked up with us, and then SOKOL joined shortly after. Our massive firefight continued. The teamwork between RR and SOKOL was great, and we were destroying NATO. Unfortunately after awhile it started to become evident that NATO wasn't calling our hits, and command kept promising additional reinforcements that never arrived. It had, for the most part, become a stalemate, and NATO eventually backed off because they were running low on ammo. At this point the game had been going on for three, maybe four hours, and we all dug in at our patrol base and began to eat dinner.

By the time dinner was up, NATO was supposed to begin patrols throughout the field and we had to defend well head 2. Seeing that our patrol base was just outside the well head, and right along a main road, we dug in and got ready to fight. Over the course of two hours, we sat and waited silently as NATO patrols walked past us completely clueless, until eventually some of our own team (who were dead and walking along the trail, shining flashlights everywhere, talking loud, not giving a f**k, etc) basically gave us up. We sat quietly but NATO knew we were there, they could see us through their NVG's. While we both had NVG's, NATO had four or five I believe compared to our two, and obviously had the advantage. We had a great, but short shootout with them which resulted in RUS being destroyed and NATO taking a few casualties. Afterwards we chatted with them for a bit, and then started packing up. I had to be in Louisville the following morning so it was time for me to hit the road.

STUFF I LIKED

-The field was awesome. So awesome. I want to see more events here. It really destroyed me and showed me areas I need to focus on to improve myself physically. I wish I could've seen more of it, but unfortunately my travels were limited.

-The immersion. The gear requirements. So much win. I wish more events would take note and do this. The story could use work IMO, but it worked, and the immersion was top notch. Nothing like playing with a group of guys dressed in full Russian kit, going against equally equipped guys in US kit. My only complaint in this respect was the rebels - scrap them and replace them with something more believable. Some guys came out dressed perfectly for the role, then other guys came out in bright red tshirts (not hating on you dude, you fought well with us - just probably could've picked something a little different to wear!). Aside from that, it was great.

-Rule set. Loved the semi auto. This needs to become a thing everywhere. Semi semi semi semi semi AT ALL EVENTS! Get rid of this M4 support gunner crap that I'm seeing at so many fields. Leave full auto to support weapons - SAW, PKM, etc. Medic rules were cool as well, I was liking the use of gauze. Much more realistic looking than string. Or tape.

STUFF I DIDN'T LIKE

- My main complaints are about CoC. I already had mixed feelings about Command going into the game because I was hearing some very questionable plans, such as CO 'x' was going to deliberately get captured by CO 'y', for instance. If this is true, this is NOT COOL. Not for this type of game anyway. Command was nowhere to be found most of the time, could not be raised on the radio, and was pretty much useless/uninterested when they were found. RR as a whole relied on one another the entire time. Aside from SOKOL and a few rebels, we seemed like the only ones who were continuously motivated throughout the event. I heard a few reports that when darkness hit, we were the only ones still active against NATO (there was probably about 12 of us). The Rebels were doomed from the start, I felt, as their CO situated themselves in an absolutely horrible spot. Putting yourself down a hill along a main road could not have been any worse of an idea. I don't care if it was your campsite and not your FOB, fact of the matter is you were operating out of it constantly throughout the day portion … if I were on NATO and saw you carrying your gun, goggles on, doing stuff down there and moving to and from, I would not hesitate to engage you and I would most definitely think that was your FOB or at least PB. Next time, pick reputable members of the community for Command positions.

-Hit calling issues were annoying. When the entire group of twenty some players are all complaining about hit calling, I feel like there is definitely something going on. I know a few people attributed it to just not feeling the hits, I felt similarly at times, so who knows. Guys….its a game….that we play for fun….call your hits.

-Raising admin/any staff on radios. This was difficult. I think the terrain was interfering with a lot of peoples comms honestly, so its not entirely the staffs fault. But it was just as difficult to raise staff as it was to raise Command 90% of the time. This sucked because we could not get anyone to moderate the NATO group that was allegedly cheating, for instance.

FINAL THOUGHTS

All in all - great event, especially since it was your first. It was challenging both mentally and physically (mostly physically), and it was great to be out on the field with a lot of like minded players who wanted to see MILSIM taken a step further. I look forward to seeing more MWM events pop up in the near future, and I also look forward to returning to the Mountain for Crucible in May.

Thanks again guys.
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Old 02-27-2014, 10:21 PM
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Thanks for all the feed back guys! It is extremely helpful.

This is in response to mostly Jaybirds post.

We never got any of your calls on the radio. So to us, all was fine. We will make sure radios are working better so that does not happen again.

CoC was a mess on both teams. This is getting changed, no worries on that.

Where the rebel camp was located was no where near wellhead 4. We had many players say it was too far and gave up. I honestly don't know if anyone went over there, let alone take any of their gear over there.

Admins did not clock out at 8. Being the XO for the US I was at the PB doing my job and making sure US guys weren't dying. Pyro was running is butt off around the field. Then we proceeded to have something come up and we were up till after 1:30AM.

As for the cheating...I have saved this for last for a reason. I have spoke with some of the guys on that hill, they said they got multiple gun hits and called them out as so. They also said that RU guys were yelling at them to call hits that they had not gotten. Now they did say other players were on the hill who seemed not so keen on following rules such as calling your hits. I'm not convicting anyone, this is done and over. More staff with be present for future events.

As for everyone clocking out early, this does not surprise me. The majority of the players who left at night would have gone all day the next day. Most players who stayed were very ready to be done. They were not ready for the physical demand of this event.

Not taking hits giving you my feedback on the other end of things.

Let it be known, our next event which will likely be a 12 hour daysim event, we will be fixing many of the problems and the hammer will be brought down on ALL players who do not follow rules, are not prepared for it, or have plans of their own. At our events this is not except-able. It is our fault for not being more on top of it at this event.
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Old 02-27-2014, 10:24 PM
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Posted pm FB and expanded

I was hoping AO would be back up, oh well.

The good: field, attitudes, gear requirements, use of real world camos and not just tan v green.

Things that need improvement are EO at each base to coordinate setup, missions, and endex, more detailed story line with a better storyline as far as role players, more objectives and secondary objectives, emergancy plans that everyone knows about, reliable transport (i know humping gear in was part of the challenge, but it limited game play), we should have designated no fire areas (camp sites), more time to dig in and more direction from EO and/or CO, and detailed squad lists (one saw per 10 players, one EOD per platoon, etc).

I had a blast, the suck meter was high on this event, but thats milsim. Improve on the details, also once you plan something, keep it. I really didnt like that you changed the schedule the day before.

Additions:

I personally had one issue with not hit calling, Im pretty sure it was a reb. Look guys and gals, just because one person doesnt call hits doesnt me you can stop calling yours. I personally didnt see any team mates not calling hits (I would have called them). Its like in Generation Kill, "you can only keep your own honor clean dog". All in all its airsoft, just keep shooting and have fun, its not real steel.

The EOs needed to get together more to plan. We showed up, the first EO said take your camping gear up then your combat load. We started to leave staging and another EO asked us where our airsoft stuff was. So little stuff like that goes a long way.

As far as the lack of confidence of the CO, I distinctly heard another squad said that they were running with X because the CO didnt know what he was doing. I think that this was because the CO was awaiting instructions or missions from the EOs. This should have been brought up with the CO or EOs, but the EOs were no where to be found.

There was also an incident where the 2nd PL was ordered to attack, 1st Platoon was ordered to hold the CCP. We were digging in, as ordered, and the PL for second was like come on, I yelled back we were tasked with defense, he was like screw you guys. I understand that he was loosing unit cohesion, trying to mount an attack, and its like herding cats,but gettin pissed because we were following orders from the CO was alittle ridiculous. Its milsim, we follow orders and a chain of command. If something needs to be done, ie support, you go up the chain, then orders roll back down, simple stuff.

I personally think I had one of the best platoon leaders on the field, Justin you did great. Also, Hitman 1-2 was a great fire team. Kyle, Matt, Dan, and Potato did a great job. Kyle hadnt played sense Artimus and this was Matt and Dans first milsim. They followed directions and with a little training they can fall into any formation will ease and watch their sectors.

In closing, EOs, I was rough on you and thats because I want you to do the best possible games you can. You shot for the moon and for your first event it was good, but there are a lot of things that need improved upon. Take this to heart and you can do great things. I love that field and it sucks. It makes you test yourself physically and mentally. It shows me how out of shape I am in too, lol. Let me know when you guys plan your next event, I will be there.
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