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Regan 04-13-2016 10:01 PM

MSW and Lion Claws thread
It's no secret there is some drama in the airsoft world. In an effort to be pro-active and inform players of the happenings in the airsoft world we (the admins) would like to provide players with a means to discuss the current situation in a productive and community building manner. That is why we are directing traffic to such a sensitive topic to and Milsim West's fb page covering the discussion of this event. NOT ON THE AIRSOFT OHIO FB PAGE.

For the full story:

Please remember wherever you discuss this, to be civil and follow the rules governing which-ever page you are on.

Glitch 04-13-2016 10:30 PM

Listened to the conversation, saw all the videos (One Grunt's, This Week, Bubba's, etc.), read all the posts.

Honestly it seems that this rivalry just took a step across the line. It's kind of like the situation where there's hostility between you and a guy from the other team on the diamond (baseball), so the umpire throws you both out. That's MSW and LC.

Bubba is the guy who was in the mix of the two guys fighting and gets tossed as well.

From a business sense, John Lu tried to "protect" his brand and the fields he uses, but took a VERY bad direction to do it. After looking at the video Bubba posted, MSW has done nothing but police themselves well and not enable this "scorched earth" policy John keeps claiming. Their security deposits came back, sounds like happy AO's to me.

From an airsoft sense, John might have just taken away a pretty good MOUT facility. With Condor gone (I believe some CY6 guys had considered going?) Bubba is gonna have to build up some trust again to host a different "first" event. Josh Warren (from what I have heard) has done well with his brand and created a twist on milsim that people are enjoying. Yes, the guys should not have been waving their wee-wee's around in front of the one woman, but that's all it was, not like they were trying to harass her. As far as her other complaints, it's Milsim, get used to that sh*t :D

LC has been fading in my mind recently as far as "Milsim". To me, they need to re-vamp how they run their games if they want to salvage this situation before it turns into a John Broccoli "PTSD" case. MSW and other big EO's have proven what milsim should be. Time to turn off all the rivalry and work together. We can't just lose facilities due to greed. Yes John makes a living off of it, but it will come into trouble if he doesn't find a way to amend this situation.

Regan 04-13-2016 11:06 PM

Glitch; nail, hammer, head. All in one post.

I feel for Bubba, that's got to be tough for his first event, he'll need time to recover for sure. MSW - from what I can tell is shrugging off the hit perfectly fine, but I think we can expect a microscope on us at AoV (if it does indeed plan to go on, like MSW is claiming). So far as airsoft as a whole it is either a huge hit to the community where this spider webs it's way to all future potential events at MOUT sites, it's mild and puts airsoft on a probation like status, or it stays secluded to this one MOUT. Either way it isn't a positive lighting.

Glitch 04-14-2016 09:51 AM

Well it seems other MOUT facilities were just fine with the way MSW handled theirselves. I think this will be a solo concern.

Rowdy 04-14-2016 11:20 AM

Lets be honest with ourselves, all these guys care about is the $$$$$. Not airsoft. They want airsoft because it means more $$$$$. Now that's out of the way...

Lu is a politically savy, and incredibly massive D-Bag.

This public smear campaign that MSW and Bubba are putting out right now is juvenile and poorly thought-out, and Lu is going to take full advantage of it. With respect to the public, he hasn't really said a word besides what I've seen on private forums. I'll tell you what's going to happen, Bubba (and maybe MSW) are going to have legal action taken against them, and given the stuff that those parties have put out against Lu's business, there's a solid case against them that will hold in court. This isn't the first time Lu has dealt with this kind of stuff. He's a pretty terrible human being that forced out a lot of the original founders of LC way back in the day and has taken legal action against people before.

These days, Lu has already been on the decline as a result of back-channeled, anti-John Lu rhetoric put out by the MSW clan and others. That was how it should've stayed. It was working.

Glitch 04-15-2016 07:55 AM

Lion Claws just released their statement. Both sides have played dirty at some point or another. Still, I just hope we don't lose MUTC altogether.

Rowdy 04-15-2016 10:17 AM

I think MUTC is going to be off the table for awhile.

Anyways, Gorilla Airsoft Radio did a podcast with Bubba Moore, Lu and MSW Josh all talking on it last night. It can be found on Youtube. (skip to 40:00 or so minutes in). It's one of those podcasts where you'll be face-palming a lot, so fair warning.

This feud really isn't good for the community. I hope it wraps up ASAP.

GreenKnight101 04-18-2016 10:06 AM

I have yet to attend a Nat OP, but I'll throw my .02 cents in anyway.
This frustrates me to no end, we as players are expected to play honorably, and we've been lucky that here in Ohio both our field owners and our event hosts are good, honest people. Which is why the actions of John Lu makes me want to puke, he dropped one of the most important parts of airsoft, honor, to be greedy and ruin an AO that I've heard nothing but good things about.

That's just my .02 cents

Bronco 04-18-2016 11:27 AM

I am very disappointed by this whole situation, but I'm of the opinion that John Lu is completely in the wrong here. He took comments from a player at a MSW event, took them completely out of context, then tried to use that to monopolize MUTC. He then proceeded to complain about people taking his words out of context, despite having just done the exact same thing.

I hope we get to continue playing at MUTC, however there are much better AO's elsewhere. Personally this was the final straw for me regarding Lion Claws events, and I don't think I'll ever be back to another one unless they host at Zussman. I've had more fun at Devil's Playground with 150 players than at OLCMSS events with 500+.

The one good thing that could come out of this is the revival of Blacksheep Milsim. Regardless of how you feel about the whole PTSD Challenge, Blacksheep hosted some badass events and I would love to have them get big again.

Panda 04-18-2016 11:30 AM


Originally Posted by Rowdy (Post 444614)
I think MUTC is going to be off the table for awhile.

Anyways, Gorilla Airsoft Radio did a podcast with Bubba Moore, Lu and MSW Josh all talking on it last night. It can be found on Youtube. (skip to 40:00 or so minutes in). It's one of those podcasts where you'll be face-palming a lot, so fair warning.

This feud really isn't good for the community. I hope it wraps up ASAP.

It's closer to 48 minutes in, for the impatient people like myself.

Blade 04-19-2016 06:59 AM

Having the general populace getting into businesses affair will destroy this sport.

Rygar 04-19-2016 10:29 AM

My take on this whole fiasco is this. This is between the business people involved. Unless you are directly a part of the problem at hand, then as a player, don't fuel the flames by arguing a point for one or the other. Show your opinion by supporting the event host that you choose. Let them fight it out amongst themselves. Once a person has chosen a side, you are very likely not to change their mind unless they are really open minded and you are very persuasive. Any added opinions or general arguing is going to do nothing but divide the community further and drag this out even longer. :(

Loki 04-21-2016 05:15 PM

When this started being about money, is when it all started to decline. I'm not surprised at all by any of this to be absolutely blunt. (I know, positive as usual)

But I agree with Blade. People need to stay out of it. Anyone that gets involved is going to end up with mud in their face. Better to let the primary parts slug it out and walk away clean.

Warfox 04-22-2016 07:41 AM

I agree with Blade that we should stay completely out of this on any public platform. If you are not directly affected by the situation.

I don't think that money getting involved with the industry or the events is a bad thing....I actually believe it is a great thing. I tend to believe that capitalism is what drives a quality experience and/or product in this industry and in any other industry for that matter.

I think what hurts our sport is a lack of integrity. When integrity is removed from the equation is when things begin to go in the wrong direction.

We can't control other peoples behavior but what we can do is be the change that you want to see in the industry. Play with integrity, do business with integrity. Make that the common thread in the sport and things will change.

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