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Rating: 8 votes, 5.00 average.

Dear Systema, THE BEARING IS WRONG!

Posted 04-02-2010 at 12:58 PM by Scorpion
Updated 04-12-2010 at 06:45 AM by Scorpion (Clarity)
Hello Systema fans all around and Systema PTW owners in AO, this is a notice to Systema on our behalf.

Dear Systema, YOUR BEARING PLACEMENT SUCKS!

Did you guys just fall asleep on the job, or did you decide to quit while you were behind? I am so angry about what I just found today while building a customer's PTW5(MP5 model PTW). To catch my readers up on what I've experienced so far with my personal PTW here is a short list.

1) All 7 of my Systema PTW magazines failed to feed BBs until I stripped each one down completely and then modified various working part and the feed lips to flow BBs without issue.

2) My PTW motor failed due to a broken winding within the armature structure. Go read up on the PTW forums about this one, you have to send your motor off to get it completely custom rebuilt to a serviceable specification or else you're subject to purchasing a new motor which will STILL fail due to windings breaking or the comm surface becoming so destroyed it cannot properly receive electrical flow from the brushes!

3) The upper receiver of my PTW literally split into two pieces while I was firing. It completely sheared off just behind the threads that the barrel nut attaches to and slid off into my forearm, inner barrel and all. Distorted Axis of the STRIKERS witnessed this and was very helpful with troubleshooting with me in the field, but came to the conclusion that the only time this failure is seen is when the buffer tube cap is shimmed to far out and causes excessive pressure on the forward assembly. Coming from an automotive background this type of answer is akin to "you just need to change your headlight fluid". Yeah right, how about you make it so the receiver is of a stronger aluminum that won't fail. Oh and for the record I use my metric micrometer and the stock tube is recessed exactly 2.1mm within the lower receiver as per your manual and the stock cap had last been adjusted by one of your authorized PTW shops(Airsoftarms). So either your instructions are wrong or you actually made one of the lowest grade receivers I've ever seen.

4) The Hop-up gives horrible groupings! So bad that a stock Echo1 can out shoot most standard PTWs. That's just pathetic since the PTW HOP and barrel costs as much as the entire Echo1 AEG. This was remedied by yet MORE custom modifications to install AEG components to make the HOP more consistent and much more adjustable.


So now that you're all caught up on my personal PTW here is what just put me over the edge on Systema and their endless bull****. I am assembling a PTW5(MP5PTW) for a customer and I cannot complete the build without performing a custom modification to the gearbox.

The lower bearing of the Sector gear is exactly 0.70mm too far to the right and is coming in contact with the outer face of the spur gear teeth. You cannot rotate the gears by hand without using what I'll call excessive force to drive the spur gear to rotate by cutting into the bearing lip. There are clear surface wear markings along every tooth of the spur gear now to show a 0.5mm width contact area where each tooth cuts into and passes along the surface of the flange on the sector gear bearing.



This is completely UNACCEPTABLE Systema. A $1000 TOY gun and you can't even give the gears proper clearance? WHAT THE **** ARE YOU DOING OVER THERE? You say you offer the best most advanced AEG on the market. You claim to have superior engineering by way of state of the art technology. Well I'm calling your bluff yet again. You're just another cheap rip off. Sure the price of admission to this ride is higher, but in the end the result is the same. Here I sit, having to apply custom modifications to fix your **** ups. I was sitting in this same exact spot with my normal AEGs.

And here is what a modified custom fit bearing looks like in a PTW5 to allow proper gear clearance. Yes, the bearing will be epoxied in place to prohibit any rotation within the bearing hole.



To the credit of Systema USA(Z-Shot), you gentlemen have always given exceptional service and if you could have matched the Redwolf offer from long ago I would have purchased from you instead. I'd also like to credit Airsoftarms for helping me with a couple initial custom modifications to my cylinder when I had first purchased the PTW. All of the dealings I have had locally with Systema representatives has been stellar, you are all great people, so please do not take my words as directed to you. I am only after Systema engineering and product design.


In closing,

LOL!
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Comments

  1. Old
    Son of Liberty's Avatar
    I agree, systema suxxx.
    Posted 04-02-2010 at 02:57 PM by Son of Liberty Son of Liberty is offline
  2. Old
    Nitemare's Avatar
    Pretty much agreed Scorpion.

    So far, all of my mags have given me issues feeding. My motor died the first game I used it. I was there to witness your upper splitting in half. Lastly, my hop-up does not even adjust on my PTW (been like this since I got it) and the groupings are "meh" for an $1,100 platform. I was also disappointed to see the pin on my bolt catch come out during the last game I played with it.
    Posted 04-02-2010 at 03:11 PM by Nitemare Nitemare is offline
  3. Old
    Krylon's Avatar
    Honestly, I've heard more problems with PTWs than any other gun. I've never owned one, but I don't plan on getting one because of all the troubleshooting threads on here about PTWs.
    Posted 04-02-2010 at 05:42 PM by Krylon Krylon is offline
  4. Old
    Dora's Avatar
    The reason there are more troubleshooting threads on PTWs is not because PTWs suck, but because more people use PTWs. Go back in time to 2006. How many threads were there on Marui troubleshooting? Likely lots (too lazy to look for myself for a concrete number.) How many now? None-why? Nobody uses them...
    Posted 04-02-2010 at 07:43 PM by Dora Dora is offline
  5. Old
    Blade's Avatar
    problem is, too many guys try to open their PTW like if it was a Classic Army or tokyo Marui. 8 guys on the team got PTWs and beside those who bought used or tried to build without knowing what they were doing, none failed. We abused them and had to change parts but failure hasn't been much of an issue. The trick? stop messing with it and simply enjoy

    Scorpion, you gotta stop trying to upgrade the ROF to 80rps or using 24V, 8000mah lipo batteries bro
    Posted 04-02-2010 at 08:23 PM by Blade Blade is offline
  6. Old
    Salem's Avatar
    Hey TMs are good weapons besides the all ABS body's that is. they make the best M14 right out of the box.
    Posted 04-02-2010 at 08:23 PM by Salem Salem is offline
  7. Old
    Scorpion's Avatar
    Nitemare and Dora's posts makes sense here, but the rest of you and all future posting...

    STOP! We're not making this a discussion about people not following directions or failing to assemble the PTW correctly. Save all that mindless banter for your own threads and blogs. This one is only to highlight a glaring failure on Systema's part to properly DESIGN their gearbox.

    STOP commenting about what each of you thinks about the PTW or AEG, I don't care. I know how to build both and keep them running at insane rates of fire.

    Oh and Frank, don't bother trying to lighten the mood. If it was a question of cyclic rate then it would be a question of angle of engagement on the piston's first tooth. Which can be remedied by shimming the piston head forward and altering the total travel distance of the piston. However the common wear on PTWs if the final tooth of the piston or sector gear leading to the obvious answer that the angle of engagement is perfectly fine but the resistance from the cylinder systems if more than the materials used for sector gear or piston to take for too long. Again a design failure, not a question of modification.
    Posted 04-02-2010 at 08:54 PM by Scorpion Scorpion is offline
    Updated 04-02-2010 at 09:05 PM by Scorpion
  8. Old
    MeticulousAssasin's Avatar
    I honestly think you are taking this way too far. Every single gun company has lemons and different problems. Who cares if it was something very easy to remedy that Systema overlooked? Just fix the weapon and get back out there on the field. Why do you assume Systema can't make this mistake on one of their thousands of PTW's?
    Posted 04-03-2010 at 09:02 AM by MeticulousAssasin MeticulousAssasin is offline
  9. Old
    Scorpion's Avatar
    Assassin you're a fool to think like that. A simple fix would be altering the shimming configuration on the gears, or adjusting the hop up or even at the worst cleaning some excessive grease from the gearbox.

    What happened here was a complete and total failure of assembly and design at the very base level of production on this PTW5. If I am to assume Systema is using a pre-molded casting and then machining out the gearboxes I can further assume that the machining process is NOT done by hand but rather by preprogrammed CNC machines on an assembly line. IF I were to assume all of this, which I am not since it's not fair to Systema, then your conclusion is bull****. This would all mean they are not even designing their product properly and are expecting it to survive for as long as possible while under extreme stress from excessive heat and friction caused by the bearing and gear teeth contact areas.

    I don't think you fully understand how serious of a failure this is that I have to take time to measure, modify, reinstall, and then secure an otherwise normal bearing into the gearbox of the PTW5. If you still can't wrap your mind around how serious this is in respect to a $1000 toy then try it on a $200,000 Ferrari. I buy the ferrari and am told it will be the most enjoyable experience possible. I am paying for the best product to experience the best results, but my ferrari overheats and then fails. I take it back to the dealership and they inform me the engine locked up due to one of the pistons becoming damaged. I need to replace my entire motor now and am without my Ferrari.

    Ferrari or PTW, both hand assembled in most areas, both the top products in their respective worlds, and both with extremely high price tags vs even their closest competitors. And you want to sit here and tell me I'm taking this too far? Thanks for posting you gave me a good laugh, but unless you(or anyone else) wants to show me that the gearboxes are all NOT cast on a mold, and NOT cut on a pre-programmed CNC table then I will continue to share this story and continue to recommend anyone I meet to NEVER purchase a PTW5.
    Posted 04-03-2010 at 09:29 AM by Scorpion Scorpion is offline
  10. Old
    Scorpion's Avatar
    Strikers_Blade posted - I can't see the problem correctly Scorpion. Is the bearing sitting at the same height than the gear or is it below the gear? Many V2 gearbox have the lower bushing right under the gear and could technically touch the teeth if the bushing was higher...or the gear shimmed too low.

    So from this angle, it looks like the bushing has been chopped off by the gear. Is it correct?
    Is it also because the bushing is made to sit that high or is there something else (forgive me my ignorance, I never opened a TW5). If it is made to be sitting that high and you have no choice but to chop the bushing, did you check with Zshot if ALL their TW5 gearbox are designed that way?

    Again, I have no problem saying Systema design is bad but I would honestly be surprised that they actually designed a gun with a chopped off bushing and if they did install a full bushing there in the first place, I don't think you could actually do one full cycle knowing the gear is against the bushing.

    Does it make sense?



    Blade, yes you make sense, but here is the issue. The bearing holes are all preset at a depth cut into the gearbox so the bearing flange and upper face will all sit flush with the surface of the gearbox casing. The gear has precut nylon shims on it which set the gears at the proper distance from each other for smooth operation. This is listed in the assembly manual of the PTW5.

    I altered the shimming with both my personal G&P copper shims and the supplied Systema shims, but at no point could I shim the spur gear low enough or high enough to pass over/under the flange lip of the bearing. I returned the spur gear to factory recommended shimming levels and it fit perfectly into the gearbox when screwed together tightly. This meant I had to modify the sector gear bearing flange to allow the spur gear to rotate without impedance. This was the only way to allow the gearbox to function without risk of damage or excessive stress.

    Does that make sense?

    OH! And...

    Since apparently you're not allowed to have a blog and thread on the same topic I'll answer Locutus's last post in my thread right here.

    NO FREAKING WAY SIR! This is NOT a unique gearbox flaw. If that was the case then they drilled every bushing hole and every single cut on this gearbox was wrong and shifted to the right by 0.7mm. EVERY SINGLE CUT! Think about that for a minute. Since all other components fit in properly, the gear teeth have at least 80% surface contact, and the gears shim properly into their bearing holes this could only mean they have made all their gearboxes like this and no one has noticed the massive failure that is the PTW5.

    If there is some small chance that the gearbox mold was put into the CNC cutting bench just 0.7mm too far right then it would indeed be a QC issue and this is a fluke PTW5 gearbox. But unless Z-shot or someone else on here wants to open their PTW5 and show me a gearbox without issue I am sticking to not recommending this PTW5 to anyone. If anyone local with a PTW5 wants to have a look see I'd be glad to help you open the PTW5 and we can take a look to make sure you don't have this issue as well.
    Posted 04-03-2010 at 09:37 AM by Scorpion Scorpion is offline
    Updated 04-03-2010 at 09:43 AM by Scorpion
  11. Old
    Blade's Avatar
    Does make a lot of sense, thanks Scorpion. Now, did you guys check with Zshot as far as opening another TW5 gearbox and see if this is done the same way?

    Quite honestly, if Systema are not using a preprogram CNC for such weapons and the specs change from one gearbox to another, I would also call it a total FAIL but as you also said, it is not fair for SYSTEMA until Zhot comes with some pictures and details too.
    Posted 04-03-2010 at 09:44 AM by Blade Blade is offline
  12. Old
    Agent Spencer's Avatar
    The only issues I had with my TW5 were the magazines being useless for anything more then throwing as boomerangs, or attaching together and forming nunchucks. Mine was assembled from the factory though, so I can't say I had the same condition, though I can attest to the magazines being massively finicky.

    But I figured it was a good buy, at 250. Heh.
    Posted 04-03-2010 at 09:45 AM by Agent Spencer Agent Spencer is offline
  13. Old
    MeticulousAssasin's Avatar
    I apologize then. Good luck with your weapon. I've never bought a $1000 ptw so I can't comment to the extent a member with one can. I would assume I would be slightly upset as well.
    Posted 04-03-2010 at 11:10 AM by MeticulousAssasin MeticulousAssasin is offline
    Updated 04-03-2010 at 11:25 AM by MeticulousAssasin
  14. Old
    Spectre's Avatar
    Systema doesn't market them as "toys." They are tools intended to provide safe simulation weapons to military and law enforcement. Their high price tag includes a statement about their ability to function with little to no maintenance.

    Its says something about a consumer market when the consumers generally accept what is essentially a sub-par product that claims to be state of the art. When a consumer purchases a product with good money and reassurance that the product is quality, they should expect that same quality in their product. Be it a BMW, or a PTW. Consumers have the right to remind manufacturers that this is the way things work.
    Posted 04-03-2010 at 11:35 AM by Spectre Spectre is offline
    Updated 04-03-2010 at 11:38 AM by Spectre
  15. Old
    DemonicUnicorn2's Avatar
    Scorpion, is it just that one hole that is off?

    If that's the case then it could have simply be a programming error. However if Systema operates even a minutely organized machine shop then they would have machine files saved under part name and the programs themselves would have been made on CAM software to minimize chances of human error in production.
    If they are making these gearboxes via manual machines, then THAT is why they have the high price tag. CNC is the only efficient and affordable way to repeat operations. Manual machines, why they can still be just as accurate, are not as well suited for production style work and repeat parts. Though I highly, highly doubt they're using manual machines.
    Posted 04-03-2010 at 12:30 PM by DemonicUnicorn2 DemonicUnicorn2 is offline
  16. Old
    SnakeDoctor's Avatar
    Specter said "Systema doesn't market them as "toys." They are tools intended to provide safe simulation weapons to military and law enforcement. Their high price tag includes a statement about their ability to function with little to no maintenance."


    that's what ive read as well. Ive done a bit of research on them because i was thinking about buying one, but after seeing all of this i might just wait a while longer. Ther'ye supposed to be the ultimate training weapon, but with so many problems like the ones Scorpion is having i wonder...

    edit: BTW Scorpion, I really hope you get it all worked out bro. I bet it's quite a beast when fully functional.
    Posted 04-03-2010 at 12:46 PM by SnakeDoctor SnakeDoctor is offline
    Updated 04-03-2010 at 12:51 PM by SnakeDoctor (added color to set the quote apart)
  17. Old
    Titan's Avatar
    SnakeDoctor you are forgetting about all the users who have very few problems with the PTW. This is like me making a post about how Echo 1/JG/ICS/CA/TM is terrible. One experience is not representative of the entire community.
    Posted 04-03-2010 at 01:27 PM by Titan Titan is offline
  18. Old
    SnakeDoctor's Avatar
    Yeah, i know you'll have problems with any brand really, but that's a hefty price tag ya know? lol. all it did was make me hold off and consider other options. Thanks for the reminder tho Titan. You're absolutely right, one experience definitely isn't representative of an entire community. I saw Darkstar's PTW yesterday at AirsoftArms. The guy working gave me a demo and i almost crapped my pants. They're such amazing rifles. I want one sooo bad.
    Posted 04-03-2010 at 01:40 PM by SnakeDoctor SnakeDoctor is offline
  19. Old
    Darkstar's Avatar
    Yikes. I'm not really sure what went wrong during the assembly process here. I can't really tend to think this is Systema's fault considering the thousands of perfectly functional TW5's that are on the market. Without seeing the kit firsthand or viewing the assembly process firsthand, I'm not sure what went wrong. From the picture, it almost looks like the bearing bushing you installed was either the wrong size, or that it wasn't installed properly. Is it possible that it wasn't fully seated into the gearbox?

    The next question is going to be, why didn't you stop what you were doing when you first noticed the issue and contact zShot about it BEFORE making permanent modifications??? Aside from the bushing, I hope that there is no permanent damage to the gearbox and that you can get some support from zShot on this. At least if it is discovered that there is a manufacturing problem, they can replace it for you, plus the cost of the modified/damaged parts.

    I've assembled more PTW's than I can count and have worked on quite a few TW5's in my day, and I've never seen this TW5 gearbox issue in the past. I've never personally had ANY Systema assemblies that have ever given be any out of the ordinary problems such as this, and definitely never anything that wasn't manufactured to spec. Every PTW I've assembled has always gone exactly by the book and as expected. I'm so used to putting them together now, I can usually do a single gun in about an hour. For this reason is seems very strange that this particular bearing didn't fit. Seems like either the wrong bearing was installed or it wasn't installed properly. Again, without seeing it, that's about the only conclusion I can come to. I can't imagine it was a "complete and total failure of assembly and design". Maybe of assembly on your part, but not of design? Trust me, I've seen more people completely F-up (and not in a good way) their PTW's because they didn't know or understand the proper assembly procedures. Putting yourself into the equation, is there a possibility that you did something wrong? Plus, if the design were in error, what explains all of the TW5's out there that are working perfectly fine?

    I'm genuinly sorry you've had such a bad experience with Systema products recently, but I am not sure the way you're handling the situation, specifically by rage-posting, is the best way to do it. Have you even bothered to contact zShot or Systema regarding any of these issues prior to rage-posting this Blog? Telling us about your frustrations isn't going to solve the key issues, nor is it going to directly open a dialog with Systema regarding the problems you're having. I suggest contacting zShot immediatly and go from there. If they're not helpful, then you might even want to consider sending a nicely worded e-mail to Kumi at kumi@systema-engineering.com regarding the TW5 assembly too. I've always gotten a response from her or one of Systema's engineers within a few days, usually once they translate my e-mails and respond. I sent her an e-mail regarding an issue with the Systema switch assemblies a few years ago. They had the issue addressed withing a couple of months, and had the issue resolved in 6. They've definitely got some great support in my opinion, and identifying issues with the PTW's will only help them improve them.

    As far as your personal PTW goes, I've also only seen one PTW receiver break after a guy fell hard into a creekbed and shattered the rear lower receiver after falling on top of it, though I've heard about more on forums. Of course, I've seen a lot more standard AEG metal bodies break though, probably because there are statistically more of them. I don't think that the receiver just broke from shooting though. There was probably a developing issue that was ongoing. For example, maybe it was dropped and developed a stress fracture that continued to grow until the vibrations from shooting finally caused the metal to fail? Just an idea to throw out there.

    And, as far as the motor issue, yep, I'm with you there. There are definitely known issues with PTW motors, and more than Systema can put off to user error, but I also know that many of those issues are caused by users installing them incorrectly. And also with that being said, the vast majority of 490T motors out there that are working flawlessly too. Where do you drawn the line between user error and a manufacturing defect? Not say that is your case, but it's something to think about. I definitely agree with a lot of people out there though that overall the PTW motors need a design revision badly.

    If you don't like the hopup, upgrade to PDI's hopup and barrel. I've heard great things about them! I can't personally complain about my stock hopup though. It's worked well for many years without any issues.

    Well, I wish you luck in getting these problems fixed. I still stand by my PTW 100% and love it. It's by far the best airsoft gun I've ever owned.

    Take care.
    Posted 04-03-2010 at 05:53 PM by Darkstar Darkstar is offline
  20. Old
    Scorpion's Avatar
    Ok here we go...

    Darkstar wrote - Yikes. I'm not really sure what went wrong during the assembly process here. I can't really tend to think this is Systema's fault considering the thousands of perfectly functional TW5's that are on the market. Without seeing the kit firsthand or viewing the assembly process firsthand, I'm not sure what went wrong. From the picture, it almost looks like the bearing bushing you installed was either the wrong size, or that it wasn't installed properly. Is it possible that it wasn't fully seated into the gearbox?


    The bearing was included bearing from the PTW5 kit. The gearbox was the the gearbox from the PTW5 kit. It was install properly. You simply drop the bearing into the precut bearing fitting in the gearbox casing. The precut bearing holes appear to be machined into the gearbox case as an exact depth as I could not force the bearing to seat in any other way but flush with the gearbox shell. It was installed properly, as were the other 5 bearings put into the gearbox, except those other 5 weren't in the wrong position within the gearbox case. But good point, however wrong answer!

    Darkstar wrote -The next question is going to be, why didn't you stop what you were doing when you first noticed the issue and contact zShot about it BEFORE making permanent modifications??? Aside from the bushing, I hope that there is no permanent damage to the gearbox and that you can get some support from zShot on this. At least if it is discovered that there is a manufacturing problem, they can replace it for you, plus the cost of the modified/damaged parts.


    If you notice the posting and editing time of my blog you will see there is the time where I contacted the owner of this PTW5 and asked him how he wanted to proceed in this case. I explained in detail what was wrong and what I would have to modify in order to correct the issue. HE informed me he did NOT wish to wait on z-shot, nor Airsoftarms to troubleshoot what I could already show was a manufacturing issue and then wait further for some replacement part to come, even if it was possible. I was "even if it was possible" since this was a the PTW5 that was raffled off at Blind Fury, then sold to a second party after that. I don't think Z-shot covers what is now 3rd party ownership. If you do Z-shot, you're awesome! More power to you, but the owner and I didn't care to wait for you to fix in a few weeks, what I can fix in 5 minutes.

    Darkstar wrote -I've assembled more PTW's than I can count and have worked on quite a few TW5's in my day, and I've never seen this TW5 gearbox issue in the past. I've never personally had ANY Systema assemblies that have ever given be any out of the ordinary problems such as this, and definitely never anything that wasn't manufactured to spec. Every PTW I've assembled has always gone exactly by the book and as expected. I'm so used to putting them together now, I can usually do a single gun in about an hour. For this reason is seems very strange that this particular bearing didn't fit. Seems like either the wrong bearing was installed or it wasn't installed properly. Again, without seeing it, that's about the only conclusion I can come to. I can't imagine it was a "complete and total failure of assembly and design". Maybe of assembly on your part, but not of design? Trust me, I've seen more people completely F-up (and not in a good way) their PTW's because they didn't know or understand the proper assembly procedures. Putting yourself into the equation, is there a possibility that you did something wrong? Plus, if the design were in error, what explains all of the TW5's out there that are working perfectly fine?


    This is a fancier way of saying what you said in your first paragraph. Try not to repeat yourself Brad, since the answer will be the same as above. So go re-read my answer to your first paragraph. The bearing was the one supplied, the gearbox was the one supplied, you drop in the bearings to the gearbox as the holes are pre-cut to exact dimensions. There is no press fitting of bearings in PTWs, I know, I've worked on quite a few now too

    Darkstar wrote -I'm genuinly sorry you've had such a bad experience with Systema products recently, but I am not sure the way you're handling the situation, specifically by rage-posting, is the best way to do it. Have you even bothered to contact zShot or Systema regarding any of these issues prior to rage-posting this Blog? Telling us about your frustrations isn't going to solve the key issues, nor is it going to directly open a dialog with Systema regarding the problems you're having. I suggest contacting zShot immediatly and go from there. If they're not helpful, then you might even want to consider sending a nicely worded e-mail to Kumi at kumi@systema-engineering.com regarding the TW5 assembly too. I've always gotten a response from her or one of Systema's engineers within a few days, usually once they translate my e-mails and respond. I sent her an e-mail regarding an issue with the Systema switch assemblies a few years ago. They had the issue addressed withing a couple of months, and had the issue resolved in 6. They've definitely got some great support in my opinion, and identifying issues with the PTW's will only help them improve them.


    Thank you for your apology, that is kind. And as I've said before and will say again, Z-shot and all local Systema representatives have been great! Real gentlemen in all regards. I however don't care one bit what Systema says as I have enough knowledge of machine tooling of materials from the automotive world to understand anything Airsoft can throw at me. Hell I have direct access to a mill and a lathe to play with whenever I want. This was a manufacturing issue of which I cannot explain exactly. Simply saying the bearing hole was placed wrong doesn't makes sense because ALL of the gears meet properly and spin 100% fluidly when I modified the bearing flange to clear the spur gear! How do you explain a gearbox that is now working 100% perfect in a fully assembled PTW5 chrono'ing 475fps on a red cylinder without any other modifications? I'll give you a hint, manufacturing error

    Darkstar wrote -As far as your personal PTW goes, I've also only seen one PTW receiver break after a guy fell hard into a creekbed and shattered the rear lower receiver after falling on top of it, though I've heard about more on forums. Of course, I've seen a lot more standard AEG metal bodies break though, probably because there are statistically more of them. I don't think that the receiver just broke from shooting though. There was probably a developing issue that was ongoing. For example, maybe it was dropped and developed a stress fracture that continued to grow until the vibrations from shooting finally caused the metal to fail? Just an idea to throw out there.


    This is a great point! Stress fractures can be very small and hard to see. Unless you are able to catch them early on it's impossible to replace the part in time. However this doesn't lessen the fact that it failed while under normal operation without any extra stress on the receiver. This states far and above all other observations that this receiver was either faulty in it's casting. At 67% the cost of a real AR receiver which has to withstand 52,000 PSI you'd think a few like taps from a pneumatic air system propelling some plastic BBs wouldn't affect our receivers much. Just a thought....

    Darkstar wrote -And, as far as the motor issue, yep, I'm with you there. There are definitely known issues with PTW motors, and more than Systema can put off to user error, but I also know that many of those issues are caused by users installing them incorrectly. And also with that being said, the vast majority of 490T motors out there that are working flawlessly too. Where do you drawn the line between user error and a manufacturing defect? Not say that is your case, but it's something to think about. I definitely agree with a lot of people out there though that overall the PTW motors need a design revision badly.


    Yes. That's pretty much EXACTLY the issue with the motors, but we're not discussing that here. That's for another thread.

    Darkstar wrote -If you don't like the hopup, upgrade to PDI's hopup and barrel. I've heard great things about them! I can't personally complain about my stock hopup though. It's worked well for many years without any issues.


    WE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO SPEND ANOTHER $200 ON OUR $1100 RIFLE! DUH! Oh and I installed a Prometheus hop packing and sealed the hop adjuster ring tighter around the barrel and my groupings were vastly improved. You should try that for $25.

    Darkstar wrote -Well, I wish you luck in getting these problems fixed. I still stand by my PTW 100% and love it. It's by far the best airsoft gun I've ever owned.


    All problems are already fixed as per my various postings already in this thread and others, but thank you for the kind words. It's nice when someone else takes and understanding of one's viewpoint. And I agree, I wouldn't trade my PTW, or BMW M for anything else in their respective markets. For no other reason then it(PTW/BMW M) gives me a experiences nothing else like it(PTW/BMW M) can provide.
    Posted 04-04-2010 at 08:20 AM by Scorpion Scorpion is offline
    Updated 04-04-2010 at 08:23 AM by Scorpion
 

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