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Why PTWs ARE worth it

Posted 03-19-2010 at 01:14 PM by Red
Sometimes I wonder why I purchased a PTW - $1800 for the whole kit. Then I go play with it. Then, I realize how amazingly efficient, delicious, and just downright indestructible they are. And how well they actually perform. And then I question why I even questioned my PTW in the first place.

Today, while prepping up for Redemption, I took my batteries and charged them. Took my cylinder from a pile of tools and shims. Plugged a battery in, threw my black 310 FPS cylinder in the gun. Pulled the trigger...no shot. Cylinder engaged about half way, stopped, and released itself.

First thing I did was pop open the receiver and check to see if the battery was indeed dead. Pulled the trigger, the gears were moving - electrical response was perfect. Strange.

Popped open my cylinder, and little did I know, this guy falls out...







That's a shim. Somehow, this shim made it into the bottom of the cylinder where the end of the piston is. My PTW cylinder smashed the **** out of it, and still works perfectly. The PTW cylinder, works perfectly. My PTW cylinder smashed a foreign object in it, and said "Meh, whatever."

This is why, my friends, PTWs are worth every cent. Try that with a regular AEG.
Tags: ptw, ptws
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  1. Old
    Rebel's Avatar
    Nice Pen!!!
    Posted 03-21-2010 at 09:55 AM by Rebel Rebel is offline
  2. Old
    blacksheep_p's Avatar
    I think the biggest problem for me was that I came from real steel before I hit airsoft. For how much a PTW costs, I could have a really nice AR-15, and that (to me anyways) is a little ludicrous if you ask me. They perform very well, I can agree to that, but I am just not sold on the cost/value ratio yet.

    Another sticking point for me is the lack of models that Systema produces. I would love to see a SCAR/ACR/G36/AK eventually, and especially the 5.56 rifles because they mostly have the same base dimensions as the M4.

    I think I just like the idea of having a lot of rifles for different flavors of the day, in lieu of "one gun to rule them all".

    Oh, and that is a really nice pen...
    Posted 03-21-2010 at 04:37 PM by blacksheep_p blacksheep_p is offline
  3. Old
    Son of Liberty's Avatar
    Gerty do I need to get Scorpion in here again to post what half of us are thinking?
    Posted 03-21-2010 at 04:38 PM by Son of Liberty Son of Liberty is offline
  4. Old
    Duo Chan's Avatar
    SoL, do I need to get you a pair of knee pads, so you can suck him off?

    Seriously, man.
    Posted 03-21-2010 at 08:04 PM by Duo Chan Duo Chan is offline
  5. Old
    Scorpion's Avatar
    They sure are worth it once you correct all the bull**** issues Systema installs in them from the factory. Presented with either the knowledge of these issues and their fixes, or an already modified PTW, I would gladly pit it against ANY custom AEG any day. And I know enough of AO knows what I can make an AEG gearbox do

    Now such a highly modified and custom PTW shares the same cost as a custom built AEG with a AWS Scorpion high realism MOSFET/controller system, but the AEG falls short in SO many areas it's not even fair to compare them. A few examples of this....

    1) Unjamming a PTW in the field is measured in seconds and with 2 tools or less. No AEG except Support guns based on PGC gearbox can claim this.

    2) High realism in function and weight based on design. No AEG or GBB can claim this. No not even the newest GBB rifles. They are still out of spec compared to real firearms. I tried it already..the trigger groups don't fit just right. Yes I was going to try one just see it blow up

    3) PTWs cycle at a very high rate of speed due in part to motor/gearbox design, but also due to a great micro switch controlled system.

    4) So many AEG components are such a crappy 80's technology no one has improved on in 20 years! Which ones you ask...how about tappet plates, anti-reversal latches, Bushings instead of bearing, v2 gearbox cracking, poor motor and gearbox engagement points, angle of engagement between gear and piston, horribly sloppy wire harness and trigger design, sloppy trigger pull, and the list goes on for pages. It's just simple apathy people. No one is making progress because we as a community keep buying this ****. It's cheap and we can't get past the fact that if it only breaks occasionally then that's fine.

    Anyone who nay says a PTW has not shot a modified one, or mine for that matter. Gents and ladies you're nay saying a design that was rushed to market to save a company some money and was basically a shot in the dark for success. Well it worked, albeit almost at curtain time, but it worked. We now have a base platform with which to modify and create wicked fast and stupidly accurate skirmish AEGs. I did it and lots of gents across the pond in the UK do it as well. It's simple but takes some money to get it done.

    Red - Congrats on not wrecking your PTW, but I'm curious how you allowed such a huge foreign object to enter your PTW components in the first place. Perhaps you need to secure your equipment better next time?

    SoL - chill brother, Gerty isn't on my priority list. She said her piece and I said mine in another blog. If she feels the need to share her thoughts then she is welcome to it. Just as much as I am welcome to skip right over them and pass onto comments worth reading.

    Duo - Why are you even commenting? What Gerty can't respond for herself? You're not dating her right? Just because SoL referred...wait this isn't even worth replying to. Enjoy your night!
    Posted 03-21-2010 at 10:15 PM by Scorpion Scorpion is offline
    Updated 03-21-2010 at 10:18 PM by Scorpion
  6. Old
    ninja_fish's Avatar
    Sorry PTW fans, this may come as a shock to you but there are plenty of reasons NOT to buy one. Stick with me now before you start raging and foaming at the mouth because someone has a different point of view.

    Lets look at what AEGs and PTWs have in common.

    1.)They both shoot up to 400fps. (400 fps being the accepted limit and what most people aim for)

    2.)They both shoot 6mm BBs. (i know its a no brainer but come on, its the one limitation thats never going to change. It is inefficient and inaccurate by nature.)

    3.)They both use tight bore barrels. (down to 6.01.)

    Can I, a middle class, average guy with a low paying job justify paying 4 to 5 times as much when the end result is not 4 to 5 times BETTER than the cheaper alternative? No, I cant.

    Are PTW's better than AEGs? Yes.
    Do they have higher realism and performance? Yes.
    Is the PTW more reliable than AEGs? Yes.
    Is the PTW invincible? No
    Does the PTW shoot twice as far? No
    Can the PTW guarentee it will never break down in the field? No
    Can I use PTW mags in other guns? No
    Am I willing to pay that much more to get these few advantages? No.

    You PTW fans still reading this? I didnt think so, but Im gonna put it another way for you.


    VFC Scar = 420$
    KWA MP7 = 250$
    G&G Mp5 = 250$
    KJW M9 = 100$
    KWA M4 = 370$
    -------------------
    Total = 1390

    But wait! What about magazine costs?! Okay.

    5x S-Arms Mp5 mags = 85$
    5x Magpul P-mags = 125$
    3x KWA Mp7 mags = 150$
    --------------------------
    Total = 360$

    Grand Total of Guns + Mags = 1750$

    So basicly I have 5 guns for the price of your one gun. Would I trade all of them for just ONE PTW? Hell no.

    *and one more thing. To the inevitable comment of "If you have a low income job and you can afford 1800 dollars in guns than you can afford a PTW." Thats not correct in my case. You see the biggest investment I bought was a 420$ dollar gun. That was the single biggest investment. The rest of it was bought over several years and in many small increments. Just an FYI.
    Posted 03-22-2010 at 05:50 AM by ninja_fish ninja_fish is offline
  7. Old
    Phil's Avatar
    ITT: Red shares a cool story (bro) about how his PTW ****s up a little piece of metal and is ok afterwards; A bunch of people get into the eternal "PTWs are/ aren't worth it" argument which is usually solely decided by their amount of expendable income.

    And just to add, if I could buy a PTW last year making $7.30 an hour, anyone can. Just save up, fags.

    Oh and SOL: Eagle gear can smash a small piece of metal, or a bunch of little kids, or a pile of dead babies, and if you happen to tear it or pop some stitching you send it back to eagle and they fix it.
    Posted 03-22-2010 at 10:57 AM by Phil Phil is offline
  8. Old
    Locutus's Avatar
    It is the complete package, and personal preference whether or not the sum of all the parts are greater than each part individually. It is the same in any hobby. Backpacking is great example, I could half the weight of my current backpack if I were to triple my budget. Its not always 1:1 cost vs performance.

    Like any hobby, to some, spending maybe twice as much for just incremental improvement probably isn't going to seem like a good investment. To others it is. I personally don't work on guns, I don't tune guns, etc. I don't even care that much about my airsoft gun. It just another tool like my radio or my map... I just want it to work, and work reasonably well, work reliably, and be as realistic as possible (the latter being the most important). The PTW, combined with the amazing support offered by Zshot, gets me that more than any other option out there.
    Posted 03-22-2010 at 12:58 PM by Locutus Locutus is offline
  9. Old
    Red's Avatar
    Chill out, guys...

    It's a toy gun. It's a hobby. People need to stop getting so friggin' defensive about a blog. It's supposed to be a wow - you're an idiot factor, or wow - your gun isn't exploded? I would have expected the cylinder and piston to explode on itself, honestly. PTW or not.

    I buy Systema because they stand behind their products. I buy eagle because they stand behind their products. I make the initial investment and rarely have to mess with anything again after that.

    Torque, I was going back and forth between numerous guns and the PTW, but I eventually decided on the PTW. I played with one, I got hooked. Big mistake LOL. I wanted a SAW and CA UAC, but I've seen so many problems with SAW box mags.

    Scorp - Totally LOL. I mistreat my equipment half the time, and that is exactly why I own expensive stuff that doesn't break. Because I'm rough on my own equipment. When I play, I get caked in mud and crap like no other. I slid into concrete walls and smashed my gun on the concrete at mansfield last weekend. I play rough, I want to be 100% sure my gun won't explode on me and my neglecting tendencies lol.

    My old CA was perfect, but it gave up after 2 years of upgrades. My TM, I'd still own it if it wasn't MIA.

    Honestly guys, what works for you is what works for you. This blog was just to illustrate how tough PTWs can be, for those of you who are skeptical of their quality for such a price tag. If you can't afford one, there's NOTHING WRONG with owning a CA, TM, KWA, Echo 1, or anything. I sell all of those and stand behind them 100%. I still want another TM P90, too.
    Posted 03-22-2010 at 01:52 PM by Red Red is offline
  10. Old
    ninja_fish's Avatar
    Nice post phil, real classy Glad ya missed the point, which is not that I cant afford a PTW, because i can, its that I cant justify the price.
    Posted 03-22-2010 at 06:34 PM by ninja_fish ninja_fish is offline
  11. Old
    Scorpion's Avatar
    Red says "Scorp - Totally LOL. I mistreat my equipment half the time, and that is exactly why I own expensive stuff that doesn't break. Because I'm rough on my own equipment. When I play, I get caked in mud and crap like no other. I slid into concrete walls and smashed my gun on the concrete at mansfield last weekend. I play rough, I want to be 100% sure my gun won't explode on me and my neglecting tendencies lol."

    Bingo! If you're not cleaning mud out of places you didn't know you had, then you're not playing hard enough! I love it when rifle and I are almost completely unrecognizable from a mud ball and all it takes is a wipe of the sights and I'm back in the fight. Playing hard is what the PTW is for me. It's obviously unique to each of us who have one and totally useless for those who prefer a normal AEG.
    Posted 03-22-2010 at 07:13 PM by Scorpion Scorpion is offline
  12. Old
    Torque's Avatar
    I'm envisioning you PTW lovers making sweet sweet passionate love to your PTWs.

    "Look, it's a PTW 3-way!" Oh yeah baby.

    But you know, a blow up doll would be a hell of lot easier (not that I would know anything about that).

    EDIT:
    Sheesh Scorp, LOL. You know I'm just joking right?? Love ya bro!
    And your PTW.
    VVVVVVV
    Posted 03-23-2010 at 06:33 AM by Torque Torque is offline
    Updated 03-23-2010 at 10:57 AM by Torque
  13. Old
    Scorpion's Avatar
    I can't help but laugh at how childish this got. Snide comments back and forth, really? What the hell people, you included teammates! We just can't come up with anything nice to say right so we should make fun of the thread that completely harmless in its intent?

    CAN YOU SEE NOW AO! THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS!




    .......but not really. I am angry we can't all just get the **** along.
    Posted 03-23-2010 at 07:21 AM by Scorpion Scorpion is offline
  14. Old
    203's Avatar
    My PTW Got Layed by another man, now she's in the shop.. :'(
    Posted 03-23-2010 at 01:22 PM by 203 203 is offline
  15. Old
    john's Avatar
    Old
    Scorpion's Avatar
    I can't help but laugh at how childish this got. Snide comments back and forth, really? What the hell people, you included teammates! We just can't come up with anything nice to say right so we should make fun of the thread that completely harmless in its intent?

    CAN YOU SEE NOW AO! THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS!




    .......but not really. I am angry we can't all just get the **** along.

    You said it.

    You were wrong about one thing though. ICS has a piston release function. It's unfortunate that's one of the first things to go on a split 2 though lol. Biggest issue with aegs is their wiring and trigger. I'm sick of replacing triggers.

    It's cool that your gun chewed up that shim especially since most guns can't even get the rubber backing on your cylinder head to stay on.
    Posted 03-24-2010 at 12:27 PM by john john is offline
  16. Old
    hkrazy's Avatar
    With new mods and parts on the market, the world of AEG AR15s is changing.

    RiotSC Gears- Never have heard of a single stripped RiotSC gear. Not even the economy model, which was 80 shipped last time I checked it came in ratios as low as 1:15. CnC'd gears. Not orbital, but the do the job.

    Shock transfer System- Really popular out here in utah. Any AR15 bodied AEG can use it. People here crack their gearbox, install this little piece, and never have another problem. It only sets ya back 30 bucks, and it does its job perfectly. No more buying new V2 boxes if you know how to replace the trigger post after every 200000 trigger pulls.

    Piston shimming- Makes pistons near invincible. Even TM pistons roll for hundreds of thousands of rounds. I still have my TM piston from last summer. Its been to 42/sec and back and its seen 550 fps, as well as support gunner roles. Its beautiful.

    Sorbothane- All the rave on AM, I picked up some of the stuff from McMaster's and it cuts the the noise in half if not more. People also report it extending the life of their gearbox, even without a STS.

    Magnum motors- Mine only lasted for 3 years, but Im not complaining. Best rps/trigger response upgrade out there. Trigger response cant quite be the same as a PTW, but it can get hella close. The next step will have to be an upgrade to the mechanics of the trigger switch.

    DBC barrels/Custom hop- Scorp, I just want you to imagine the old SR with a DBC barrel. You used to brag about it outshooting PTWs with a 6.03 barrel.

    Btw, just thinking about this makes me want to rebuild the SR with a little 2010 update this summer... ;D
    Posted 03-25-2010 at 06:12 AM by hkrazy hkrazy is offline
  17. Old
    kurow's Avatar
    This is too fuuny guys. AO wasn't founded on this type of behavior and posting. I understand that he/she has a right to freedom of speech, but just because you have the freedom, doesn't give you the "right" to speak that way towards each other. Because it boils over onto the field in a physical way. Prime example, OP. CS 2 during briefing, you know who you are. This type of talk and physical action should never happen.

    I don't think that the start of this blog spoke "The PTW is superior", and why did it move towards that is not a mystery.

    This blog has renewed my faith in the PTW. I too was questioning it and was thinking about going to a gas-blowback rifle. I use to own at least 5 different AEG's, and bought my PTW used because I wanted something that when I pull the trigger I just wanted it to go ~BANG!~ Out shooting/ranging some other AEG is not in my Rolodex, because I play and compensate for my AEG's shortcomings. Whatever happened to fun and getting shot up because you didn't want to camp around? (Don't answer that, we already know)

    I wanted to say in response to this post. Yes' sir. It is good to have an issue with your AEG, assess the issue with a minimum checklist and know whats going on with your rifle.

    Guys and Gals, stay friendly.
    Posted 03-27-2010 at 08:40 AM by kurow kurow is offline
    Updated 03-27-2010 at 08:44 AM by kurow (spelling errors)
  18. Old
    Red's Avatar
    Good post Kurow, agreed...

    HK, interesting stuff. All this talk of modding AEGs makes me want to get into it...damn!
    Posted 03-27-2010 at 03:26 PM by Red Red is offline
  19. Old
    hkrazy's Avatar
    Thats why I still have AEGs. I enjoy tinkering. I can afford both, It wouldnt be the same with a PTW. If everyone wasnt different, the world would be a really boring place. Especially boring if there werent a couple of us running around with AEGs nearing 40 rps.

    Also, if airsoft shops did a little research and brought these tricks out of the underground, they may be able to change the face of the game.... Just sayin....
    Posted 03-29-2010 at 05:32 AM by hkrazy hkrazy is offline
  20. Old
    Scorpion's Avatar
    Screw PTWs....my reciever broke off at the barrel threads at springfield this last weekend at Op: 128, and then then entire forward assembly and inner barrel fell off in to the ground. It literally came apart in my hands while I was firing. What a piece of ****!

    And from another point of view -

    PTWs rock! At OP: 128 last weekend my upper receiver cracked off at the barrel threads and the entire forward assembly with inner barrel slide off into my forward hand. But I was able to push it back together and trade optics mounts with a teammate that held the forward RAS and top receiver rail tightly enough that I could continue firing the PTW! How cool is that, my rifle snaps in half but I'm still slinging plastic down range! Now that's a great investment.

    And finally....

    **** the haters....everyone likes their own type of rifle. In the end we're all talking about smooth bore toy rifles that barely outrange a bow and arrow. As of late I'm completely unsatisfied with Airsoft as a whole. I get twice the excitement from driving my M3 around than I do slinging plastic. It's not even worth talking about anymore but I thought I'd at least share my most recent experience with the only rifle I've ever owned that can instill both inhuman levels of frustration, and pure satisfaction to the point that nothing else seems worthwhile. Welcome to the world of PTW, it's a love hate thing.

    In closing, to Ty(Hkrazy). With today's tech built into what was "The SR" would give me nothing but headaches as I would be back to square one...hunting for the perfection I never attained. So settling for 2nd best is still good enough for me. Oh and there is a new AEG coming soon that I will be working serious magic on. I'll give you a hint...it's from my favorite brand of real AR, and yes it has a box mag
    Posted 03-29-2010 at 12:40 PM by Scorpion Scorpion is offline
    Updated 03-29-2010 at 12:43 PM by Scorpion
 

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